Potential speafishing ban in South Wales

[KWM]

Thanks to everyone that has sent an objection in.

As soon as we have some news/information I will put it up for everyone to see. Special thanks to Morgan Lidstone and Dave Thomasson for giving up so much time so far and making sure that the views of as many spearfisherman and women as possible have been heard.

regards kev

 

[Pastor]

Well I hope collectively we have enough to tip the balance and that the ******* BSAC don't have the final say in this. And as damp as this sounds, I would like to echo your thanks to Morgan and Dave for taking the time to stick up for us all at what could be a crossroads of British spearfishing

 

[Mr. X]

Lest we forget what's at stake...
Visit Wales: Welsh "Blue Flag" Beaches (most of the coast, except Port Talbot area).

Looks like they forgot to add spearfishing to these websites:
Fishing Wales
Adventure Wales
Home Page - Wales Water Sports

(Thought Wales had some grouse shooting too?)

 

[Spaniard]

Just received this email!


For information.
I reported the BSA view and the main points of all representations received.
There being no time because of other new pressure on the agenda - the matter was deferred to another meeting . Poss before 28 September.

It would be helpful to me to receive any further views on :

1. Restriction of number of fish taken to 2 fish per person per day (cf other SWSFC byelaws eg see byl 41 on our website)
There is a proposal also emanating from WAG (not SFCs) that anglers & other recreational BOAT fishermen (not shore) who are not commercial boat fishermen with a WAG licence, be limited to taking 5 bass per person per day. Anglers on average take smaller bass than spearios, and bass seems to be spearios main target fish.

2. That scuba spearfishing be banned throughout the district

3. That all spearfishing be prohibited within the confines of Skomer Marine Nature Reserve.

4.That National code of conduct for spearfishermen be strengthened and promoted Nationally through all English & Welsh SFCs

I stress that these are my questions not Committees but have arisen as a result of the correspondence and discussion with others and I want to be prepared for when we do meet to discuss the matter in more detail, including at a meeting of SFC Chief Officers on 3 July.

Regards
Phil Coates


SOUTH WALES SEA FISHERIES COMMITTEE (SWSFC)
Queens Buildings, Cambrian Place, Swansea. SA1 1TW.

Director: MR P J COATES Deputy Director: MR M S STAFFORD

Tel: 01792 654466 Fax: 01792 645987
E-mail: swsfc@aol.com Website: South Wales Sea Fisheries Committee

 

[Andy Davies]

Just received this from Phil Coates:

For information.
I reported the BSA view and the main points of all representations received.
There being no time because of other new pressure on the agenda - the matter was deferred to another meeting . Poss before 28 September.

It would be helpful to me to receive any further views on :

1. Restriction of number of fish taken to 2 fish per person per day (cf other SWSFC byelaws eg see byl 41 on our website)
There is a proposal also emanating from WAG (not SFCs) that anglers & other recreational BOAT fishermen (not shore) who are not commercial boat fishermen with a WAG licence, be limited to taking 5 bass per person per day. Anglers on average take smaller bass than spearios, and bass seems to be spearios main target fish.

2. That scuba spearfishing be banned throughout the district

3. That all spearfishing be prohibited within the confines of Skomer Marine Nature Reserve.

4.That National code of conduct for spearfishermen be strengthened and promoted Nationally through all English & Welsh SFCs

I stress that these are my questions not Committees but have arisen as a result of the correspondence and discussion with others and I want to be prepared for when we do meet to discuss the matter in more detail, including at a meeting of SFC Chief Officers on 3 July.

Regards
Phil Coates

I'm not sure why there is a reference to Byelaw 41 as this does not mention anything about catch restrictions. I think a catch limit of 2 is too restrictive. I'm quite happy with points 2, 3 and 4.

 

[Pastor]

My views:

1. Restriction of number of fish taken to 2 fish per person per day (cf other SWSFC byelaws eg see byl 41 on our website)
There is a proposal also emanating from WAG (not SFCs) that anglers & other recreational BOAT fishermen (not shore) who are not commercial boat fishermen with a WAG licence, be limited to taking 5 bass per person per day. Anglers on average take smaller bass than spearios, and bass seems to be spearios main target fish.

Hardly fair, I know anglers who can and do catch 10 + Bass a day and then sell them to the local restaurants. We can't sell our catch even if we wanted to. Same rules should apply.

2. That scuba spearfishing be banned throughout the district

What's the point? Scuba spearos can't catch sod all (BASS!!) because of the noise anyway and even so why should they be singled out?

3. That all spearfishing be prohibited within the confines of Skomer Marine Nature Reserve.

Fair enough, it is a marine reserve. I take it then that angling etc. will also be prohibited?

4.That National code of conduct for spearfishermen be strengthened and promoted Nationally through all English & Welsh SFCs

Agreed, sensible idea,

 

[Andy Davies]

I'd imagine that Old Man Dave might be able to enlighten you on the effectiveness of using SCUBA for spearfishing!

 

[Huw]

Spearios... similar to cheerios perhaps ?

 

[Huw]

oops... just posted my views, but I'm not sure whether i should have done or not, so have held off.

Huw.

 

[spaghetti]

knock knock, may I come in?
It's just for a brief note about the situation in Italy. We've had some 50 marine sanctuaries institutionalized in the last seven years, and spearfishing has been banned from all of them. We're a tiny group just like in the UK, and never could be strong enough to fight against this.
But now some things are changing, we're no more all alone. Also anglers associations and gear manufacturers are now finally fighting on our side, since things are moving to a further step:
1- the new marine parks are now banning not only spearfishing, but also surface fishing sports (anglers, line and rod et ecetera). As a result, now anglers too are joining our battle against the "trimurti", the strange alliance of animal activists, scuba agencies and industrial fisheries. And anglers are a big group...
2 - the new marine parks in project are really BIG!!! For example they're now trying to ban all sorts of fishing sports from all the Tuscan Islands (Elba, Giglio, Capraia, Giannutri, Formiche, thousands of square miles) so that the owners of the biggest gear manufactures (Omer, Seacsub, Mares, C4 et cetera) are really scared. They had a meeting last week and started a counteroffensive. They asked to meet the Minister of Environmental Policies to make him a proposal for a compromise solution instead of total ban.
---
Now, why am I telling this to you, UK people? You should let your anglers know what's happening in Italy, as an example of a possible future UK scenario: they started banning spearfishing from small areas, and they're ending up to ban ALL fishing sports, including rod and line, from HUGE portions of sea. C'mon guys, Get united and fight back!

 

[Pastor]

I'd imagine that Old Man Dave might be able to enlighten you on the effectiveness of using SCUBA for spearfishing!

If we complain about some angler wanting to kill our sport we should stick by other factions of our own. This issue would seem to be about Bass not flatties conger and Ling etc. The issue is responsible fishing not the method in which it is done!

 

[Mr. X]

My thinking is in-line with Pastor's...only more so - probably more like Spaghetti's. I am opposed to all of the above proposals. It's a pity they don't spend more time fishing and less time sitting in rooms making up rules to restrict others. :head (Too much budget?).

If they really feel they must force their restrictions on others (and clearly they do), then the limits should be the same for all (rod/spear/net/...) fishers alike. The only spearfishing-specific rule needed (if any) is one that states that spearfishing is allowed.

Pity Alison isn't still around to speak out, a Welsh woman spearo with international standing.

(Re. item 4 - Why are the SWFC trying to create rules beyond their jurisdiction? Also, they should be base in... Fishguard?!)

Spearios... similar to cheerios perhaps ?

A tasty fish flavoured breakfast cereal, rich in Omega 3 - yummy

...I have taken informal soundings of BSAC (who are in support)...

Big of them! No skin off their nose, I suppose! I don't know -- how do you guys feel about cutting public funding for hyperbaric chambers for divers & specialist diver medical centres? (After all, they could always dive more carefully). (I'm kidding)

 

[podge]

Just a question, if the powers that be do ban spearfishing (and I hope to god that they don’t) in an area how are they going to in-force that ban?
What I mean is that there are only so many fishery officers and I would guess that most of them are to busy pushing bits of paper around to worry about the odd spearo taking the odd Bass.

After all they banned Hunting with hounds and we all know they in-force that law with every power at their disposal.rofl

And before you all jump down my throat yes I do take this proposed ban seriously as I do think that any threat to our sport now will only grow unless its stamped on at an early stage.

Spaghetti has got it right when he says we should try to get more support from other areas of the sport fishing community.

My 2 bobs worth

 

[MattHolt]

Just checked DB for the first time in months and the first thread I read is about banning spear fishing where I live!

My e-mail of objection has been sent, hope its not too late.

A big thank you to every one fighting our corner, I hope this can be sorted out sensibly. The four points raised all seem good to me. Most spearos I know have an unwritten code already and rarely take more than 2 fish.

I thought the whole of St Brides bay including Skomer and Ramsey was a marine reserve and have never fished there.

I agree with Pastor that scuba spearos wont catch any Bass anyway although they could potentially clean out areas of reef of reef fish if they were feeling particularly irresponsible

 

[Andy Davies]

I agree that the same rules should be applied to all recreational fishermen catching the same species of fish. There will obviously be different rules for commercial fishermen versus recreational fishermen but I feel at the moment that the commercial fishermen who are members of the SWSFC are trying to restrict or ban any recreational catch of species such as bass that they want to catch themselves.

This is a deplorable situation as they are at present no catch limit restrictions on commercial fishermen for bass in inshore waters. I have learnt that long-liners and gill netters are taking thousands of kilos of bass from Carmarthen Bay so trying to ban or restrict the catch of spearos is really rich coming from them.

However, we do need sensible inshore fisheries management which does involve having closed areas for fisheries, both commercial and recreational. We are a long way from this at present.

 

[Huw]

To be honest points three and four are fair enough.

BUT no matter the views on scuba spearing, doesn't the principle remain the same that if this one small section of spearing falls down to legal restraints, then the way has been paved for more precedents to come? Many of us who have sent our objections to the committee come from far a field, however we want to prevent sections of our sport from being ruled out, this is exactly the same however you want to look at it.

Also bag limits...
Firstly I would tend to initially imagine in theory bag limits are ok, but also utterly unenforceable.


Secondly most of us hunt with personal discretion each time we hit the water... but what justification is there for spearos facing blatant discrimination with anglers free to take more? Just because anglers TEND to take smaller bass doesn't mean that they HAVE to. In theory an angler could leave from his days fishing with 5 10lb fish whereas a spearo only 2.

Most of us would be right chuffed with 2 bass. But I know that I would then be damn p#ssed if I had strung two 5lb bass just to find myself in a shoal of 10lb fish and be legally restrained from taking a shot.

It would be interesting to see the numbers of active spearos in the area compared with active recreational worm sinkers.



I think these two points need serious revision.

Huw.

 

[Mr. X]

Just checked DB for the first time in months and the first thread I read is about banning spear fishing where I live!
...

Welcome to Britain 2007 - "you snooze, you loose", as the Americans say. You have to watch at least 3 bodies now though: Welsh Assembly, British Parliament and EU...good luck! You could be one of the last S. Wales spearos.

I don't see why spearos would accept a fishing ban for Skomer, unless all other forms of fishing (e.g. rods & nets) are also banned. i.e. there is no need for any spearing-specific bans, they should just ban fishing there (or not).

Also, it's the thin-end of the wedge, they'll just keep tightening if you encourage them. If you show weakness, they'd happily ban your low-impact, selective, sustainable activity while letting the anglers and commericials (which have real impact) continue and expand their activity. Sarnian just posted this on the Guernsey thread: http://www.blumood.com/video/vari/trawl_action.wmv

Per the recent discussions [on the Cornwall thread (I think)], 80% of British commercial fish/seafood catch is exported (pity, the local selection here is dire); so we're not talking about the markets not having fish for local people.

 

[eric aqua]

Wow send that to the South Wales Fisheries it makes flounder spiking look ecologically friendly.

 

[SurfnSpear]

I did a very quick reply with a little help from the Pastor....here's a return reply...

Thank you for your response.

Commercial fishing from a boat minus licence (any method) is prohibited - max fine £50k
5 fish limit boat fishing is Welsh Govt proposal. For some reason they do not wish it to apply to shore fishing. Welsh SFCs do. I think the answer is that its about as much helping to shore up the vessel licensing provision as conservation.
I am getting mixed comments about Scuba efficiency.I guess bass are pretty flighty.
Your trawl video is very benign - you should see the deep water beam trawl or scallop dredge stuff.
2 elements to it - escapee survival / bottom disturbance.
The latter is minimal on your light weight trawl. Shallow water / short tows then the former would be OK too. Not so heavy deep water big boat stuff.
Regards
Phil Coates


In a message dated 18/06/2007 12:16:09 GMT Daylight Time,
*****writes:

Quote:
1. Restriction of number of fish taken to 2 fish per person per day (cf other SWSFC byelaws eg see byl 41 on our website)
There is a proposal also emanating from WAG (not SFCs) that anglers & other recreational BOAT fishermen (not shore) who are not commercial boat fishermen with a WAG licence, be limited to taking 5 bass per person per day. Anglers on average take smaller bass than spearios, and bass seems to be spearios main target fish.
Hardly fair, anglers who can and do catch 10 + Bass a day and then sell them to the local restaurants. We can't sell our catch even if we wanted to. Same rules should apply.
Quote:
2. That scuba spearfishing be banned throughout the district
What's the point? Scuba spearos can't catch sod all (BASS!!) because of the air noise anyway and even so why should they be singled out?
Quote:
3. That all spearfishing be prohibited within the confines of Skomer Marine Nature Reserve.
Fair enough, it is a marine reserve. Angling, commercial fishing etc. must also be prohibited?
Quote:
4.That National code of conduct for spearfishermen be strengthened and promoted Nationally through all English & Welsh SFCs
Agreed, sensible idea,

Please see this video.
http://www.blumood.com/video/vari/trawl_action.wmv

​

 

[Pastor]

I did a very quick reply with a little help from the Pastor

You have to question the wisdom of this rofl

Seriously I am pleasantly surprised to see that the Welsh SFCs want a bag limit