Sharm Individual World Champs - Info & Updates

[trux]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

... Maybe it depends on the person, I don't think I could do it by accident, I would actually have to consciously try to inhale water to risk getting any in my lungs ?

I think Eric is right: the epiglottis must be firmly closed, because in that depth you always have some negative pressure in your lungs (despite the blood shift), so if epiglottis is not closed, the negative pressure would actually suck the water in. I found my epiglottis dysfunctional in the last weeks during static apnea trainings (possibly due to the allergy season). In such state I am unable to keep the breath inside and end every statics with practically empty lungs. I had to start using nose-clip for that reason during statics too, although normally I did not use it. This is done with positive pressure in the lungs, so if it were negative and sinus flooded, water would easily enter the lungs.

As for Andrea's idea, I am afraid such solution would be technically and logistically quite challenging. Such big horizontal structure would tend to block, and I'd be also afraid that the diver may get squeezed between the dish and the rope, bringing it to halt, or injuring the diver. I think that Sebastien Murat's D.R.U.M.S. is not that bad system. Although not perfect, it has some advantages. It is already tested and technically quite simple and inexpensive.

Another idea might be training dolphins for the rescue (or using those of NAVY Seals who are trained for chasing enemy divers and defusing mines) They just do not travel well, so all freedivers would need to travel to their place

 

[cebaztian]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

It might be possible to build a harnes that is not too un-hydrodynamic. That has a fix point close to the crouch (most preferable point for CNF swimming) and when under a pull from the antiballast system (a BO body weighs about 8kg I think) releases from the crouch and slides (on a ring) back to somewhere high up on the back (the best pulling point for recovery).

But this is probably quite problematic and will take many prototypes to finish. And as others has pointed out migh highten the probability of an unfavourable entangelment with legs, arms, neck (since the lanyard has to be longer (probably).

Reacting on Erics post I too believe that as long as the retrieval system is activated soon enough, speed is not that important - it could even be bad with too much speed.

So heres what I am planing to do. Buy a depthsounder (fishfindertype with animation). If I could see the athlete stop moving - the AB system can be activated within seconds and the depth can be told to the safetydiver who can prepare accordingly. I predict that we will ask for a lot stronger safetyfreedivers in the future.

This monitoring I believe will increase CNF safety MUCH more than forcing alpha/beta models of new harnesses into competition. Hopefully I will have this system set up for Nordic deep.

Sebastian

PS. I never believed that a head tilted back would in any way force water into the lungs. The subconcious and the epiglottis are tough bastards. The BTT team on the surface must in any case be very sure to remove water from athletes mouth (throat) in a severe BO case. You need to get the body up on a platform.

What I am trying to say is that neither AB speed or head tilted back are the weakest link in todays rescue systems in CNF (off course as these dives get deeper AB ballast speed becomes an issue). I as an athlete /organizer/friend would be accept a recoverytime of 90 seconds maximum from BO to surfacing.

How many deep BO´s has there been?
http://forums.deeperblue.net/safety/71733-list-competition-deep-bo-s.html#post647954

 

[wolleneugebauer]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

So heres what I am planing to do. Buy a depthsounder (fishfindertype with animation). If I could see the athlete stop moving - the AB system can be activated within seconds and the depth can be told to the safetydiver who can prepare accordingly. I predict that we will ask for a lot stronger safetyfreedivers in the future.

This monitoring I believe will increase CNF safety MUCH more than forcing alpha/beta models of new harnesses into competition. Hopefully I will have this system set up for Nordic deep.

Sebastian

that is my way too. Not especially for cnf but in the lake it will be safer with it. I am looking for this in ebay since 2 weeks. It costs second hand between 30 and 70 euros only. You can use this to find the depht and you can see the athlets.

 

[glennv]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

Be carefull with the very cheap ebay models. I have one which I almost never use because it is very inaccurate. Tells me there is a diver when there is none and the other way around. So if you use such a device for safety (and not just for finding out how deep it is, which i limited the use for) I would seriously recommend a good proven and little bit more expensive model. Used on boats for finding schools of fish etc. You don't want to get a "false" feeling of safety.
Would you buy a parachute second hand on ebay for under 100 euros ?

 

[TRITON]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

So, when will we know for sure what the rules are regarding the lanyard?
All the ideas until know seem to be to constaining and to complicate for CNF.

 

[samdive]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

we tried to use a fish finder from Ebay to watch uw at SaltFree and predict if/when we might use our counterbalance

the one I bought cost about £50 and was absolutely useless

It was too slow to pick anything up so by the time you saw the athlete, he/she was back on the surface

S

 

[TRITON]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

My personal opinion is that no lanyards should be used in CNF since no good solution has been found and that divers should be situated along the line to ensure safety regulations are complied with.

 

[Dennis77]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

Will be one or more of you there to join the competition?

If everything´s fine (it´s not so easy to find a flight to Sharm el Sheikh) I´ll join Umberto Pelizzaris Workshop from November 5th to 9th.
If I´m there by the time the championship will take place, I´m gonna take a look for sure. *g*

 

[GreG.]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

Using a lanyard or not... lanyard were introduce into our world before counter balast systems. Don't forget it, BO is not the main probem in deep water and even if you never heard about deep BO rescue stories, how many time did you lose the line as swiming down ? Who wants to dive with wide open eyes to look at his guide line ? Do you think the safety freediver wants to play jump-blue (CMAS cube) at 30m to find you ?
If there is some restriction, it is for safety... and to my opinion safety is not negociable. If one day you want to enter Marseille's competition, you will have to put your lanyard on your arm even for CNF, or stay home. some of our freedivers go deeper than 50m CNF with linyard on their arm without any problem.

 

[TRITON]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

I agree that safety isn't negociable but there ought to be some other ways to secure the diver in the case of deep water blackout that don't constrict him.

 

[Freediver81]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

35 Euro! Wow, how is it so cheap!

This is considered normal in Sharm El Sheikh! Great Place to visit and dive in!
I've been there at least 20 times! 8 hour drive from my home!

Said

 

[littlefreediver]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

OK, I've joined this discussion very late in the day and very interesting to read everyone's thoughts.

Having only just found this post, and given the fact that it seems (at least there doesn't appear to have been a definitive solution agreed on yet) unclear as to the situation regarding the position of lanyards and the Worlds are really not all that far away, have the organisers/AIDA/whatever powers that be considered that there may be some serious athletes out there hoping to do something pretty special in CNF who DON'T READ DB posts?

I would be seriously pissed off, if after months of training with a lanyard on my waist, as per the rules, to find out just days in advance that my whole system was now illegal. Surely it is too late in the day to be discussing major changes such as this (I know the post was started back in May, but possibly I'm not the only person to just find out about this?) and athletes should be given a year's notice ahead of the event to accommodate changes and train accordingly. Is there another line of communication with athletes going to the Worlds that I am unaware of? Living in Dahab, I for one, have no idea how I would go about making a harness system - there just aren't the options or materials here for that kind of thing.

On a more constructive note, to avoid the lanyard tangling at the bottom, I dived with Peter P earlier this year and he has developed an ingenious system of threading his rope through a tennis ball (or something similar) and attaching this securely at the start of the 1.5m grap zone at the bottom. This ensures the lanyard can't fall to the bottom weight where it has a chance of tangling with the attachments down there. I thought it worked brilliantly.

On another note, this uncertainty of the rules, or changing them without going through the 'proper' procedures (new to this all, so not sure what they are, but sure it must involved some committee, testing, voting etc) is reminding me of the rather contentious - dare I say it? - 83m CNF record. It is another example of a lack of clarity in the rules, or lack of adherence to them. Come on AIDA - I know you're all busy, but please let's sort all of this out!

Thanks
x
S

 

[Will]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

Hi Sara,
This is no longer a possibility - AIDA is prohibited from making changes to competition rules in the 3 months before the World Champs (we are now 2 months out).
If your lanyard matches specifications in the current competition regulations (v. 11.2) then you will be fine.

To Greg - I would never enter a competition where lanyard on wrist is mandatory, as proposed for Marseille, for the very reason that it is LESS SAFE than attached to the waist.
In general I feel it is still unclear whether, holistically, lanyards improve safety or reduce it in clear water. They create a plethora of minor incidents, which can potentially develop into major incidents, with the only benefit of providing for a very unlikely deep water blackout.

 

[cebaztian]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

Antiballast and lanyard tests at NORDIC DEEP.

I went down to 50 meters with lanyard at waist.
Antiballast started - lanyard got ripped of - this model that has been approved by many judges wasnt up to the job. I grabbed the lanyard in a second and was pulled up. There was to much faith in the wellcrow. It has to loop trough a buckle and fold back onto itself to be strong enough.

Second test - Stig went down to 40 meters with better lanyard at his waist. Was pulled up at the waist totally passive - he claimed it worked fine. Was somewhat slow thought due to drag.

Sebastian

 

[cebaztian]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

Could we have WELLCRO tags at WC.
Freedive Lanyards

PLEEEEASE Ricardo.

Sebastian

 

[susie]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

Hi all,

yes, I can confirm you all that it is in the organizations intention to use velcro system for CNF competitions.

See you all in Sharm...

 

[Kars]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

Now 3 weeks before the WC Kick's off, what is the organisers' decicion on the CWNF lanyard question?

Second question, -I have not found a participents' list- Who is comming to Sharm El Sheikh?

I hope I can find a flight, than I'll be down there!

Thanks,

Kars

 

[Walrus]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

It may not be a problem (yet) for CNF but for Constant we are getting to the stage where lanyards and/or deep safety divers really are needed. If you talk to any of the guys doing 100m+ dives the Narcosis can be quite severe. As divers are getting deeper we may have incidents such as Eric F described where a diver may not be able to make it back to the surface without assistance. Lanyards are a bit of a pain with CNF, on the waist it's not too bad, on the wrist would really be a pain and more likely to interfere with your techique. So no official AIDA rule change yet, so Laynards on the waist are still ok then ?
Or is it just that a lot of comps now are having an extra requirement such as wrist lanyards only ?

Cheers,
Wal

 

[samdive]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

there are some safety implications relating to possibly damaging your back if you are lifted to the surface using a waist lanyard/counterweight. It would also affect the hydrodynamics/speed of the lift. That was the reason for not allowing them at some comps.

I haven't heard anything specific about this event though.

 

[Kars]

Re: AIDA WC Website - Sharm 2007

Well I people I'm still in a search for a affordable flight to Egypt.

Could anyone please tell me what the WC schedule looks like, when the competition days are so I can more easily find a flight?

Unfortuantely the WC website is not informative about these essentials.

Second question, Does anyone want to share a room with me at the 'official' WC hotel?

Third question, who's participating?

I just whish this organisor had a bit of the Slovenian website policies.

Thanks, returing to the internet to find a fitting cheap flight...

Kars