Static PB's

zipy · Mar 28, 2003

Cong. Walrus 5:01 on first attempt ain't bad at all!!
Well done.
Try again in few days and you will see if it is a fluke. I am looking forward to see the outcome.

Zipy

BatRay · Mar 28, 2003

Good job Wal.

Walrus · Mar 31, 2003

Hi All,
At the pool I tried doing a single static again without any warmups and managed 5.20
I could have done a bit longer, felt good at the end, really didn't need to recover much at all. Thinking I might have been doing my statics all wrong over the years. I should try 1 or 2 very short warmups and then a Max, perhaps that will work better ?

Still might try for some longer times with a single static. Think it would be so funny if in a competition you could just hop in the pool without a warmup and still do like a 5.30 static or something. :duh

Anyone else want to try doing a max on your first static ?
I'm curious if it only works for me or if it's something that will work for most people. Contractions do start early but it seems easier to hold it for longer.

Cheers,
Wal

zipy · Apr 2, 2003

hi

5:20 !! nice
On my first attempt i can only do about 3 min (very dificult). I don't seem to get enough air in my lungs (they are not strecht enough). But i don't do wet static (maybe that is the reason).
I have one question : do you pack (on first attempt) and if you do how many times?

Zipy

Walrus · Apr 3, 2003

Hi Zipy,

No I wasn't using packing on those attempts. I did some pack stretching before hand which helps you get a bigger breath. I normally used packing on my max statics which helps but makes it harder to relax. I used to do 15-20 packs but then backed off to 5-10 so it's more comfortable. I find Packing for dry statics even worse, seems harder to hold the air in, so I don't do it.

Cheers,
Wal

MaxDream · Apr 7, 2003

Last Thursday I achieved a new personal best in static: 7'30''
My old PB of 7'19'' lasted about one month. I'm hoping to achieve at least one PB per month.

My PB history for wet statics:
1998: 4'50''
1999: 5'16''
almost no training from mid-2000 to mid 2001
2001-10: 5'20''
2001-11: 6'03''
2001-12: 6'21''
2002-01: 6'32''
2002-03: 6'35''
2002-04: 6'40''
2002-05: 6'47''
2002-10: 6'49''
2002-11: 7'09''
2002-12: 7'13''
2002-02: 7'16''
2002-03: 7'19''

-maxtream

immerlustig · Apr 7, 2003

nice series!

can you outline your training approach maybe?
i'm especially interested in peoples approaches for 7+ min statics. how many days/weeks before a max attempt do you start, how many days per week max attempts etc.

good going

roland

MaxDream · Apr 8, 2003

Training

I do one 90' static only training session per week and additionally one or two 40-45' sessions after dynamic training. I know it's not very effective to do static after dynamic but somehow it's training, too. My personal best in a static session after dynamic is 7'07'' (last Friday).

My preparation during static training is mostly the same for about 5 months now:

Sometimes I prepare for a static session doing a few dry statics while driving to the pool. (something like 2' static, 2' recovering, 3' static, 3' recovering, 4' static, sometimes even up to 5' static)

when I get into the pool I prepare for 30':
1'30'' ventilation
3'00'' static
1'30'' recovering + preparing
4'00'' static
3'00'' recovering + preparing
5'00'' static
3'00'' recovering + preparing
6'00'' static
3'00'' recovering + preparing
end of preparation

max attempt 1 (6'30'' on a bad day, 7'30'' on a great day)

The rest of the training time I continue to do max attempts with breaks of 2'50''-5'00'' for recovery and preparation until I'm tired.
After the 7'30'' on Thursday I did two more max attempts:
7'00'' and 7'10''.

During my most intense static training I made five max attempts:
6'45'', 7'03'', 6'33'', 6'59'', 7'04'', 6'36''

You may notice that much of it is very similar to the training of Karl Pernett.

My average pulse during static max attempts is usually about 120 bpm (127 when high, 110 when low). I know that's not normal for a human being.

I hope it helps you. If you are interested in my complete training statistics (Training results from 2001-10 until now in static, dynamic and constant weight) I could mail you the Excel sheet.

Roland, are you are German or Austrian?
Wolle from Berlin mentioned you when we talked about his Dahab training. BTW my birth name is Dominique Ventzke.

-maxtream

dacasine3 · Apr 8, 2003

Nice progression

Hello MaxDream!!

A very nice progression... Felicitations! Ihr Zeit ist wunderbar....

Could you attach your Excel training sheet to a thread? I would be very interested to read it...

Thank you! Have a nice day,

damien.

derelictp · Apr 8, 2003

Impressive!

Hello!

Fantastic results, Maxdream!

I have some questions that I hope you wan't to answer:

-What preparation pattern do you use for the max attempts?
rest time?
breathing cycles? (periods of hyperventilation followed with just relaxing and so on)
excessive hyperventilation?
feeling in your body?
Is it always a fixed pattern?

Your heartrate is interesting!
I have noticed a pattern where my heartrate increases the more hypocapnic I get from hyperventilation.

Low ventilation----60-70 average bpm
Hyperventilation---~100 average bpm

MaxDream · Apr 8, 2003

-What preparation pattern do you use for the max attempts?
rest time?

I tried to describe it in in my last post. To make myself clearer:
My last preparation dive is about 6'00''. After that I recover for about 1'. Then ventilate for 2' to prepare for the max attempt. So (1+2=3) 3' after I've finished my last preparation dive I start the first max attempt. Sometimes it's 4' or 5' after. It depends on the availability of a safety diver.
I want to do a max attempt every 10'. If the former attempt was for example 6'45'' then it leaves me 3'15'' time for recovery and preparation of the next attempt. Do you see the pattern?
But it's not always working like that because it's a buddy sport and sometimes I have to be the safety diver. For the best possible training you would need the luxury of a fixed safety diver who is there just for you. But on the other hand it's fun to be safety diver for my teammates, too.

breathing cycles? (periods of hyperventilation followed with just relaxing and so on)
excessive hyperventilation?
feeling in your body?
Is it always a fixed pattern?

I don't do excessive hyperventilation. During my preparation for a max attempt I breath deeply but slow (~6 breaths per minute). I don't have a fixed breathing method. I addapt my breathing to the feeling in my body. It's a slight hyperventilation. When the feeling of hyperventilation is too strong (i.e. crawling under the skin and a mushy feeling in the head) then I breath softer until I feel better.
I tried to do static without hyperventilation at all and the first contraction came very early. I wasted to much energy on fighting.
I also tried extensive hyperventilation which resulted in very late contractions (5'45'' was the latest I think) but the feeling even before the first contraction got very uncomfortable, so got the fighting which was very short and ugly.
The best way for me is to do slight hyperventilation that results in late contractions and comfortable fighting. It's hard to describe. You have to see it for yourself. You have to try out many different methods to see what works for you and what doesn't.

My heartrate without hyperventilation is ~90-100bpm.

I atached my training statistics Excel sheet.

-maxtream

derelictp · Apr 8, 2003

Thanks......

....for a good answer!

That's exactly the same approach that I have to Hyperventilation but I have different rest times (5min for max).

I'm not near your fantastic times, my statics ranges from ~5.30 a bad day to ~6.00 (PB 6.03) on a good day but I hope I can improve....

I will try shorter rest-times!!

MaxDream · Apr 8, 2003

I will try shorter rest-times!!

I got the idea of the short rest-times from the training pattern of Karl Pernett. First I thought 3' is way to short to recover after a 6'+ dive and also prepare for another one. But I tried it out and saw that longer rests are a waste of precious time that you could actually spend underwater.
Thus my experience is that shorter rest-times do not increase the actual performance but they allow a tighter schedule.

-maxtream

derelictp · Apr 9, 2003

Fast dynamic

MaxDream:

I read your interesting training history and I saw that you also have made an awesome 169m dynamic!!

I also read 100m in 59sek (is it correct?) which is (what I think) very fast for a 100m dynamic...
I assume you use a mono?!
Are you a finswimmer, you must at least have a good technique?!

Maybe it's better to go fast on dynamic?

I am used to speeds of around 1m/s.:hmm

MaxDream · Apr 9, 2003

Answer for fast dynamics

I also read 100m in 59sek (is it correct?)

Yes, it's correct that I did a 100m dive in 59'' but on that dive I wanted to go faster than usual. Today I did nine 100m dives. The slowest was 1'10'' and the fastest 1'02''.

I assume you use a mono?!

I use a Waterway Model I Medium Monofin.

Are you a finswimmer, you must at least have a good technique?!

I haven't been a finswimmer. Well, in 1998 I did compete in a finswimming competition but only in the 50m apnea disciplin. I did that competition just for fun.

My technique is ok but far from really good. It's to strenuous for me to hold my arms really straight forward. My arms are too relaxed and I am not as streamline as physically possible.

Maybe it's better to go fast on dynamic?

It really depends on your individual style. The best monofin dynamic freedivers are going fast.
Here are a few examples:

Herbert Nitsch, 2002-02-02, comments his world record:
- 181m - time 1 minute and 53 seconds - I was in a hurry, because of diarrhea

Herbert Nitsch, 2002-11-16, Berlin: 183m in 2'00'' WR
Peter Pederson, 2003-02-22, Berlin: 177m in 1'58''
Dominique Ventzke, 2003-02-22, Berlin: 166 in 1'50''

Bi-fin-divers are slower. A few examples:
Stephane Mifsud, 2002-01-27, Geneva: 174m in 3'30'' or something like that.
Hubert Maier, 2002-10-26, Wiesbaden: 138m in more than 3'
Tom Sietas who trains with me: 150m in ~2'10''

-maxtream

derelictp · Apr 10, 2003

This is interesting facts. I belive that with a real good technique a swimmer can go at the speed of 1,5m/s as effortless as I go at 1m/s which means that the diver with a good technique can go 50% longer with the same O2 output only because of speed!?!

I belive that technique is the key to dynamic.

fpernett · Apr 10, 2003

Congrat Dominique,
One question
The bi-fin divers that you know uses flutter or dolphin kick in dynamic?

MaxDream · Apr 10, 2003

Bi-fin divers

All those I mentioned use flutter kick as far as I have seen them perform. I've seen ex-WR-holder Andy LeSauce do dynamic and he started dolphin style and then change to flutter kick. I think that is quiete economic because when you use dolphin kick then you use different muscles than during flutter kick. Thus the oxygen burn-out is shared by all muscles used.

-Maxtream

fpernett · Apr 10, 2003

I agree

I think the same, and that's the approach I will start

Adrian · Apr 11, 2003

I've seen ex-WR-holder Andy LeSauce do dynamic and he started dolphin style and then change to flutter kick.

I'm no expert, only doing 75 meters dynamic (with bi-fins), but when experimenting I found that the dolphin kick gets me further with less effort.

MaxDream, how far into the dynamic would Andy LeSauce switch styles?

Adrian

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