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Static PB's
- Thread starterMr Black
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Originally posted by ivan
hi
I know a guy on this forum who told me he smokes like a chimny and drinks like a fish yet he can hunt at 50m with a speargun
cheers
We all had better tolerance to abuse between 15-25 years of age. I doubt that the mentioned person is outside this range. However, abuse eventually catches up with you and I'd advice caution. In any case, it sounds like a big waste of talent to me.
Hydro
Ivan, anything that falls outside of the following formula:
1. Smart and structured training
2. Proper nutrition
3. Adequate rest
4. Easy and deep state of mind
The rest are distractions and barriers to achieve your goals.
Take care my young friend. Gerard.
hi
Ivan
I don't see a problem hunting at 50m. People do it at 100m (lucky bastards )
There are just a few rules you have to follow (gerard mentioned them ) everiting else is a pice of cake
Don't give up! You have 6 min static why couldn't you get to 50m?
Zipy
Ivan
I don't see a problem hunting at 50m.
People do it at 100m (lucky bastards )There are just a few rules you have to follow (gerard mentioned them )
everiting else is a pice of cake Don't give up! You have 6 min static why couldn't you get to 50m?
Zipy
hi
Ha Ha nice one Eric sounds like me in the future stuggling down to 20m. Like I said in another thread I will make 7mins before I dive 100ft or maybe even 90ft. And Eric who is that guy anyways I would like to know why he finds deep diving so hard like me.
Zipy are you sure people hunt at 100m with a speargun floatline etc. Thats hella of an effort, I thought the constant weight record was 90m Carlos Coste and thats without a gun.
I like your confidence for me to get depth but it just aint gonna happen. A 4L lung capacity just isnt good enough to have the air to equalise at depth. My theory about deep diving is that if you havent got enough air in your lungs you are gonna run out of air to equalise with at depth. If you look at all the pros most have at least 10L of air to go down with and one guy has 14.6L. Fattah, Nitsch, Stepanek all have 10L of air and this is why I think they dive so deep. Maybe I should wear a really heavy weightbelt so I can get down really quickly which will make my body think it has air left to use. No matter how fit I get or even if I one day make an 8min static ?? It doesnt make you have air left to equalise with maybe being super fit and having a 8min static might help with being able to pull off a bit of bottom time at depth but you still will run out of air to equalise with if you try go deeper.
cheers
Ha Ha nice one Eric sounds like me in the future stuggling down to 20m. Like I said in another thread I will make 7mins before I dive 100ft or maybe even 90ft. And Eric who is that guy anyways I would like to know why he finds deep diving so hard like me.
Zipy are you sure people hunt at 100m with a speargun floatline etc. Thats hella of an effort, I thought the constant weight record was 90m Carlos Coste and thats without a gun.
I like your confidence for me to get depth but it just aint gonna happen. A 4L lung capacity just isnt good enough to have the air to equalise at depth. My theory about deep diving is that if you havent got enough air in your lungs you are gonna run out of air to equalise with at depth. If you look at all the pros most have at least 10L of air to go down with and one guy has 14.6L. Fattah, Nitsch, Stepanek all have 10L of air and this is why I think they dive so deep. Maybe I should wear a really heavy weightbelt so I can get down really quickly which will make my body think it has air left to use. No matter how fit I get or even if I one day make an 8min static ?? It doesnt make you have air left to equalise with maybe being super fit and having a 8min static might help with being able to pull off a bit of bottom time at depth but you still will run out of air to equalise with if you try go deeper.
cheers
hi
I just thought of a solution to equalising problems. If I could some day use the water filling your equalising tubes so you dont have to waste air equlaising you could dive down like seb murat and it would be kinda like doing a static except coming up would be hard but still that is an ultimate soultion. One problem though I heard that you can drown from doing that equalising method :hmm
cheers
I just thought of a solution to equalising problems. If I could some day use the water filling your equalising tubes so you dont have to waste air equlaising you could dive down like seb murat and it would be kinda like doing a static except coming up would be hard but still that is an ultimate soultion. One problem though I heard that you can drown from doing that equalising method :hmm
cheers
Ivan,
100ft is a very respectable depth. Id be very happy there. I've been into this for 5 months now and I haven't been in the ocean but twice, 4 months before I really started training! I bet the farm that I can only do 60fsw, max. Really, id be very happy at 100ft with a 45sec bottom time. The biggest pressure change, remember, is between 0-33fsw. This is where you will have to equalize the most.
Tim
100ft is a very respectable depth. Id be very happy there. I've been into this for 5 months now and I haven't been in the ocean but twice, 4 months before I really started training! I bet the farm that I can only do 60fsw, max. Really, id be very happy at 100ft with a 45sec bottom time. The biggest pressure change, remember, is between 0-33fsw. This is where you will have to equalize the most.
Tim
hi TMckee
I have never thought of what you just said and it kinda makes sense. Are you saying that in the first 33ft of the dive that this is when I will be using most of my precious 4L of air. SO once you start getting past 33ft you shouldnt have to waste so much air equlising. Can you tell me a little more about this please.
Zipy yeah 100ft is more like it
cheers
I have never thought of what you just said and it kinda makes sense. Are you saying that in the first 33ft of the dive that this is when I will be using most of my precious 4L of air. SO once you start getting past 33ft you shouldnt have to waste so much air equlising. Can you tell me a little more about this please.
Zipy yeah 100ft is more like it
cheers
Ivan/Andrew,
Forget lung volume; remember that Seb Murat goes down extremely deep in cw with a passive exhale! That should boost your confidence about diving with a low lung volume. I would dive on a passive exhale too, if I could dive in 23C+ water (i.e. no suit). Passive exhale dives are only effective without a wetsuit...
Personally I've gone to over 30m with a passive exhale, so at least we know you can hit that.
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
Forget lung volume; remember that Seb Murat goes down extremely deep in cw with a passive exhale! That should boost your confidence about diving with a low lung volume. I would dive on a passive exhale too, if I could dive in 23C+ water (i.e. no suit). Passive exhale dives are only effective without a wetsuit...
Personally I've gone to over 30m with a passive exhale, so at least we know you can hit that.
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
hi Eric
Yeah that is super confidence but isnt the only reason he can do that is cos he fills the tubes with water so he doesnt need to equalise them and probably has his mask filled with water too. So the only limiting factor should be how much you can go on a passive exhale. Maybe I should start practicing exhale statics. But I dont know how to fill my tubes with water and apparently its dangerous.
I have always thought why guys like you, Nitsch, Stepanek dont fill your tubes with water too surely you can go a lot deeper not having to watse air to equalise but you say cold water is the limit.
Eric do you know how to fill the tubes with water.
cheers
Yeah that is super confidence but isnt the only reason he can do that is cos he fills the tubes with water so he doesnt need to equalise them and probably has his mask filled with water too. So the only limiting factor should be how much you can go on a passive exhale. Maybe I should start practicing exhale statics. But I dont know how to fill my tubes with water and apparently its dangerous.
I have always thought why guys like you, Nitsch, Stepanek dont fill your tubes with water too surely you can go a lot deeper not having to watse air to equalise but you say cold water is the limit.
Eric do you know how to fill the tubes with water.
cheers
Martin Stepanek is not great at equalizing with air and he had to flood his sinuses on his 90m record. When he was forced to use a mask in Ibiza (i.e. no water equalizing allowed), then he turned at 65m because he said he couldn't equalize.
Herbert and I both use the mouthfill, and that is the only way I could go over 30m on a passive exhale.
Seb Murat, however, uses water all the time; I don't think he ever learned the mouthfill.
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
Herbert and I both use the mouthfill, and that is the only way I could go over 30m on a passive exhale.
Seb Murat, however, uses water all the time; I don't think he ever learned the mouthfill.
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
Hi,
Actually Eric I use both air and water. I have a broad repetoire of equalization techniques depending on the dive depth envisaged, water conditions (especially water temperature and purity) and familiarity with the environment I dive in (with or without mask).
For example, If I think I have enough oxygen to do a dive, i.e., it's anaerobic limited, then I'll use air to equalize and may switch to water if need be; I may even use a mouthfill.
If for some reason on the other hand water purity is an issue I may be forced to equalize on air alone. I may even settle for not equalizing at all if the pressure on my ear drums doesn't exceed much more than 1.2-1.3 atm and the dive is aerobic limited.
In short, my experiences have taught me to be flexible and employ a broad range of techniques depending on where I wish to be physically and physiologically.
On the topic of passive exhale dives, i.e., FRC dives, I'll often do them as I descend, evidenced by a telltale stream of air bubbles. This allows me to equalize with air for a few meters (no mask, no nose plug and still inverted) then use a quick mouthfill (positive mouth pressure and finally mouth volume reduction) before switching to water. This prevents excessive water entering the nasal cavity or Eustachian tubes.....I never let water enter my tubes!
The real reason for exhales is to reduce the energy cost of the descent by using gravity as the propulsive force, since the energy cost of passive drag vs. active drag is about 1/3. The benefit outweighs the corresponding energy cost in ascending, through loss of buoyancy. Free-fall distance varies in direct proportion to my anticipated dive depth. I vary free-fall distance by varying the lung volume and not by adding ballast. I believe the use of ballast to counteract positive buoyancy could be a fundamental flaw in current freediving methodology.
The other reason for passive exhales is to minimize the risk of SWB and DCI during deep dives and promoting an earlier onset and more magnified dive response.
Ivan and others indicated that wet equalization could lead to an increased risk of drowning. As long as as the glottis is shut you wont drown but you might get the sensation of a swollen throat as a result of the osmotic difference between sea-water and throat tissues.To wet equalize correctly, the soft palate must be closed otherwise water will rush in and down.
Sebastien
Townsville, Aust.
Actually Eric I use both air and water. I have a broad repetoire of equalization techniques depending on the dive depth envisaged, water conditions (especially water temperature and purity) and familiarity with the environment I dive in (with or without mask).
For example, If I think I have enough oxygen to do a dive, i.e., it's anaerobic limited, then I'll use air to equalize and may switch to water if need be; I may even use a mouthfill.
If for some reason on the other hand water purity is an issue I may be forced to equalize on air alone. I may even settle for not equalizing at all if the pressure on my ear drums doesn't exceed much more than 1.2-1.3 atm and the dive is aerobic limited.
In short, my experiences have taught me to be flexible and employ a broad range of techniques depending on where I wish to be physically and physiologically.
On the topic of passive exhale dives, i.e., FRC dives, I'll often do them as I descend, evidenced by a telltale stream of air bubbles. This allows me to equalize with air for a few meters (no mask, no nose plug and still inverted) then use a quick mouthfill (positive mouth pressure and finally mouth volume reduction) before switching to water. This prevents excessive water entering the nasal cavity or Eustachian tubes.....I never let water enter my tubes!
The real reason for exhales is to reduce the energy cost of the descent by using gravity as the propulsive force, since the energy cost of passive drag vs. active drag is about 1/3. The benefit outweighs the corresponding energy cost in ascending, through loss of buoyancy. Free-fall distance varies in direct proportion to my anticipated dive depth. I vary free-fall distance by varying the lung volume and not by adding ballast. I believe the use of ballast to counteract positive buoyancy could be a fundamental flaw in current freediving methodology.
The other reason for passive exhales is to minimize the risk of SWB and DCI during deep dives and promoting an earlier onset and more magnified dive response.
Ivan and others indicated that wet equalization could lead to an increased risk of drowning. As long as as the glottis is shut you wont drown but you might get the sensation of a swollen throat as a result of the osmotic difference between sea-water and throat tissues.To wet equalize correctly, the soft palate must be closed otherwise water will rush in and down.
Sebastien
Townsville, Aust.
hi Seb
Im not really sure on all the tech words but maybe you can clarify a few things for me. Firstly why does water purity affect your diving? do you mean visibility, or sediment in the water.
Also I take it that you fill your tubes with water after a few metres into the descent ?
Why dont you fill them before you descend at all ?
You said you never let water into your tubes, I thought thats exactly what you did so that you dont have to use air to equalise them ?
How does diving on empty lungs help prevent shallow water blackout ?
What is a glottis?
What is osmotic ?
What is a soft palate ?
Lastly how do you fill your equalising tubes with water.
as you can see Im not that smart on tech freediving things and I dont think a lot of others on here are as well.
cheers
Ps Im from Wonga Beach Qld do you know where that is.
Im not really sure on all the tech words but maybe you can clarify a few things for me. Firstly why does water purity affect your diving? do you mean visibility, or sediment in the water.
Also I take it that you fill your tubes with water after a few metres into the descent ?
Why dont you fill them before you descend at all ?
You said you never let water into your tubes, I thought thats exactly what you did so that you dont have to use air to equalise them ?
How does diving on empty lungs help prevent shallow water blackout ?
What is a glottis?
What is osmotic ?
What is a soft palate ?
Lastly how do you fill your equalising tubes with water.
as you can see Im not that smart on tech freediving things and I dont think a lot of others on here are as well.
cheers
Ps Im from Wonga Beach Qld do you know where that is.
Hi Ivan,
No worries ......no one is born learned.
Equalizing with water that is high in microorganisms (tropical) could lead to infections if you were to get it in the middle ear. I only fill the sinuses and nasal cavities. Water never enters my middle ears. To ensure this doesn't happen one should have some estimate of one's sinus and nasal volumes. That info. can be gotten in specialist anatomical textbooks. From there you can then work out calculations on pressure volume relations as they relate with depth.
Some might be willing to let water enter the middle-ear, e.g., Stepaneck but the depth limiting factor isn't ability to equalize but ability to tolerate high hydrostatic loads on the venous system and heart muscle, i.e., you could blow a main if blood pressure rises high enough.
You can reduce the risk of SWB by reducing your initial lung volume. As you know they call it shallow water blackout happens (usually) in the last few meters where the pressure gradient is steep. For example, in ascending from 10m to the surface your lung volume will roughly increase two twice the volume. Lung gas must re-expand and/or be 'sucked' out from the circulation for this to happen. If your initial lung volume is say, 4 liters at 10m then by the time you reach the surface this will have expanded to roughly 8 liters, i.e., twice. The greater the change in volume the greater the potential suction effect. If the change in volume is great enough enough O2 could be removed from the circulation to drop arterial oxygen pressure. Now, if the change in volume is small as for example when doing an exhalation dive then so too will the suctional effect.
Glottis is that part of the anatomy which blocks air moving from mouth to lungs and vice versa; as when you hold your breath. The soft plate is that part which opens and closes when you breathe, or not, through your nose. Osmosis is to do with solutions and their concentrations such that the constituent of a solution seek to move from areas of high concentrations to areas of low concentrations and thus gain balance, e.g., pruning effect of the skin when you've been in say, fresh-water too long.
If it still doesn't make sense and if your in Cairns on Thursdays I'm usually at the Woree pool from 11.30am onwards. Feel free to drop by or give us a call the night before (Tel: 40 511150) so that I can confirm that I'll be there. Don't know what you know or don't know but if you feel you might get some benefit from doing a no nonsense session with me, feel free.
Seb
Townsville, Aust.
No worries ......no one is born learned.
Equalizing with water that is high in microorganisms (tropical) could lead to infections if you were to get it in the middle ear. I only fill the sinuses and nasal cavities. Water never enters my middle ears. To ensure this doesn't happen one should have some estimate of one's sinus and nasal volumes. That info. can be gotten in specialist anatomical textbooks. From there you can then work out calculations on pressure volume relations as they relate with depth.
Some might be willing to let water enter the middle-ear, e.g., Stepaneck but the depth limiting factor isn't ability to equalize but ability to tolerate high hydrostatic loads on the venous system and heart muscle, i.e., you could blow a main if blood pressure rises high enough.
You can reduce the risk of SWB by reducing your initial lung volume. As you know they call it shallow water blackout happens (usually) in the last few meters where the pressure gradient is steep. For example, in ascending from 10m to the surface your lung volume will roughly increase two twice the volume. Lung gas must re-expand and/or be 'sucked' out from the circulation for this to happen. If your initial lung volume is say, 4 liters at 10m then by the time you reach the surface this will have expanded to roughly 8 liters, i.e., twice. The greater the change in volume the greater the potential suction effect. If the change in volume is great enough enough O2 could be removed from the circulation to drop arterial oxygen pressure. Now, if the change in volume is small as for example when doing an exhalation dive then so too will the suctional effect.
Glottis is that part of the anatomy which blocks air moving from mouth to lungs and vice versa; as when you hold your breath. The soft plate is that part which opens and closes when you breathe, or not, through your nose. Osmosis is to do with solutions and their concentrations such that the constituent of a solution seek to move from areas of high concentrations to areas of low concentrations and thus gain balance, e.g., pruning effect of the skin when you've been in say, fresh-water too long.
If it still doesn't make sense and if your in Cairns on Thursdays I'm usually at the Woree pool from 11.30am onwards. Feel free to drop by or give us a call the night before (Tel: 40 511150) so that I can confirm that I'll be there. Don't know what you know or don't know but if you feel you might get some benefit from doing a no nonsense session with me, feel free.
Seb
Townsville, Aust.
