World Series Freediving competition series announced

[OzMike]

Ok cool, I found the Thread ...and i am a week late, my appologies.

Yes I am the Organiser of the ODEX-TREME Neptune Freediving Challenge!

However i am not the CEO of WSF - I am in charge of International Development.

Is quite informative for me to see mostly positive and interested people, only a few negative people here, again for those who may have missed it, WSF exists to bring more participation, More interest, more exposure and more $$$ and corporates into Freediving, and of course this will hopefully result in more fun!!!!

The Concept is not new but the approach is very NEW.

Please if you have any Questions or you would like to get involved then email the Australasia Office contact@worldseriesfreediving.com - there will be Europe and USA offices opening in the next few months - very exciting stuff!!

Thanks to Stephan and the great DB site for always supporting future developments in all diving sports, is really cool!!

Best wishes

Mike Wells

 

[Simos]

Great to see you here Mike, thanks for taking the time. It would be great if you could just say a few things about HOW the approach is new. I think it's important for all to understand otherwise it does look like others (AIDA etc) but obviously a bit less 'deep' for now as it's new. Noticed a few interesting things like no packing allowed and a couple of different disciplines - looks like it's not targeted at the existing competitive freedivers so much but for new ones? I might be wrong of course.

Just a small thing as first impresions, I think if the 'about' section of the website was 'toned down' a bit in terms of being THE freediving body etc and had a bit more real info about the people (like you) behind WSF I think it would be even better welcomed but maybe those are my first impressions that might be wrong.

Anyhow all the best with WSF and look forward to seeing how things develop, especially when it comes over here in Europe

 

[fcallagy]

Its certainly an interesting development. I am not sure how it will develop but if freediving grows it will need more organisations to bring it to the masses imho. Essentially the original purists will stay and maybe only compete in AIDA but again if there is better prizemoney than why not do both? If this makes it an easier entry and more fun comp you may see an influx of "beginners" attending who have no allegiance to another body or even in a lot of cases any knowledge.
PS. The money for industry is in beginners not seasoned freedivers who are at it for years.

 

[Stephan Whelan]

The money for industry is in beginners not seasoned freedivers who are at it for years.

I've been saying this for years but unfortunately does sometimes fall on deaf ears.

 

[Walrus]

The no packing rule is the single most stupid rule I've ever heard of for freediving competitions. With this rule the performances of William trubridge, Dave mullins, Herbert Nitsch, Natalia molchanova, Guillaume Néry, Ryuzo Shinomiya, Kathryn Nevatt (McPhee), Eric fattah, Guy brew , Ant williams etc, etc would not have been possible.

Why would I want to compete under a set of rules where I'm forced to concede %20 - %30 of my performance ?
When it comes to "health risks" you are actually far safer for deep diving using packing then not using it, as it decreases your chance of lung squeeze and ear barotrauma.

Under AIDA rules you have complete freedom to dive with or without packing, or even FRC if you like. Is it just me or does this rule seem stupid to other people as well?

 

[watts]

The prize money may persuade some to stop packing.:naughty

 

[Mullins]

Wal - it's pretty clear that this (SSI + WSF) is a commercial enterprise leveraging work already done by AIDA, rather than something that aims to support freediving in any kind of altruistic sense. If it was, there's no reason it couldn't be done under the AIDA banner. I expect the no packing rule is to attract spearos and recreational divers, because there is little money to be made from freedivers who already train and compete. Nobody would be stupid enough to think it makes sense as a 'fair play' rule - unless you believe being good at something unfairly disadvantages others.

 

[x_yeti]

Uhmmm... don't like their rules then don't compete in their comps.

Dave, I've got to disagree with you on your "no reason it couldn't be done under the AIDA banner" comment. AIDA isn't a perfect organisation. It has its problems especially with regards to being heavily dependent on volunteers rather than paid professionals... and some of those volunteers are not involved for altruistic reasons either. Running AIDA competitions also has financial and logistical burdens to organisers. Take Kathryn's new record for example. WSF would have to come up with a pretty big chunk of cash to pay for all the AIDA judge courses and then wait a couple of years for those judges to get enough points to do world record events. We are running our own comp under a new organisation down here in Cape Town in September. It just doesn't make financial sense doing it through AIDA especially when you are far away from Europe.

That said, I don't like their new disciplines and I don't like the fact that they are going to ignore the current world records set under AIDA... but then again AIDA and CMAS don't recognise each other's records. I also don't like that they aren't doing doping tests for world records. The no packing rule is weird. But so what?! If their rules don't work, then they'll change them soon enough. How is what they are doing going to affect AIDA competitors and records? Worried they are going to get more press? The most 'visible' freedivers that I know aren't even world record holders.

 

[watts]

I don't know how they will enforce the no packing rule in depth disciples as it is easily hidden with face down through snorkel or will they make divers keep their head up too?

 

[Mullins]

x-yeti - best we have a different set of world records for each continent then? I don't see how WSF would have offered Kathryn a better alternative than going on the world ranking list (which is cheap and easy). I've got no particular problem with AIDA facing competition, but for something claiming to be the "world governing body for professional freediving competitions" etc etc this all looks decidedly amateurish. The kind of thing you'd put together as an advertising vehicle if you wanted to lend legitimacy to SSI courses. Nothing terribly wrong with that, but at the same time they can't expect to be taken too seriously by existing freedivers. Not when they're just ripping off existing AIDA rules and material, then making grand claims (complete with weird grammatical mistakes).

Watts - we need to ban streamlining too. It's way too.... elitist.

 

[Simos]

Unfortunately different rules by definition mean that the records cannot be comparable. In essence they are different disciplines eg DNP

I would give WSF a break - maybe a more commercial organisation is not such a bad thing. Having said this, I don't see myself joining any time soon but unless they ban streamlining and gliding in which case I'll be in a pretty good position lol

I do think too as others pointed out that it will take a while to mature. Rules need to be added, rules like 'no packing' will be dropped etc etc (the 'safety' reason doesn't make sense to me either, might as well have no HV, no empty lung etc etc). But anyway shouldn't get stuck on that, it's just one of many things - the big picture is what matters so we'll see how that evolves.

 

[trux]

Please if you have any Questions or you would like to get involved then email the Australasia Office contact@worldseriesfreediving.com

I wrote to that address a week ago, proposing help in promoting the WSF events at Apnea.cz and including the competition results into the global ranking, but got no answer at all. Are you sure the address is functional? Or is WSF not interested in the help?

When it comes to "health risks" you are actually far safer for deep diving using packing then not using it, as it decreases your chance of lung squeeze and ear barotrauma.

That's actually incorrect. In fact, and I admit that rather paradoxically, packing increases the risk of a squeeze. It is demonstrated not only in numerous threads here on DB, but also proven by scientific studies. The initial micro-injuries of the lung and trachea tissue after the packing (that are very common and well documented in studies), make then the tissue more susceptible to the squeeze in the depth. The packing alone can already cause dangerous pressure in the lungs, but the most critical moment is likely the duck dive, when the already over-pressurized lungs get compressed even more, leading to a peak of pressure creating so more stress than the tissue can handle. Another possible mechanism was speculated to be responsible for some of the injuries - the total volume of air in lungs drops during the breath-hold due to the consumption of O2 (that is not fully replaced with CO2), but in the same time, due to the bloodshift, the final lung capacity drops too, and this reduction of the lung capacity may be easily more important than the loss of volume due to the O2 consumption. It means, at a packing freediver not exhaling before surfacing, the resulting pressure in the moment of reaching the surface may be superior to the pressure during the immersion and can aggravate the stress the lungs suffered during the dive. The statistics show indeed a rather high number of lung squeezes at packing divers, regardless of the depth they reach.

Personally I rather like the idea to exclude the packing. I do not understand why it should be unfair, when the rule applies to all WSF competitors. Who cares if they do not reach the same performances as in AIDA or CMAS competitions? They compete against each other, and not against freedivers of other federations.

... We are running our own comp under a new organisation down here in Cape Town in September.

X_yeti, can you send me some details about the competition and about your organization? I can add the event to the competition calendar and the results to the global freediving ranking at Apnea.cz.

 

[tcrusson]

I really fail to see what's making you guys so angry here... It's a new organisation with different rules - which will apply to all people who compete. If you don't like the rules, as x_yeti said, it's simple: you don't have to join these comps...

You may not agree with the packing rule (I think it is kinda cool because it's making everyone start from scratch with a clean slate and can potentially bring different results), but yet again there are a number of AIDA rules I would call stupid: penalties for feet breaching (you know, as if you could breathe through your feet), the grabbing rule, etc. You may not agree with all the AIDA rules either, yet you just live with them, right?

Although the altruistic approach Dave talks about sounds nice in theory, in practice it translated into... 1 competition in the past few years I've been freediving in Sydney. Not really what you can call a resounding success. If WSF sees a market for it and develops it, like what SSI did for courses (I seem to recall a few skeptics for that too, a few years back), and people buy into it, then where's the problem?

i'm not a huge fan of comps, partly because of the ego issues they seem to create, but hey, if it helps bring more people into the sport so I never have to worry about finding a training buddy, and help develop infrastructure around it like what happened lately in the south pacific with more freediving centres, even help develop the sport's visibility by attracting sponsors and media (freediving on TV could be cool), then it's all fine by me.

 

[x_yeti]

best we have a different set of world records for each continent then?

We already have more than one set of WRs. CMAS and AIDA.

I've got no particular problem with AIDA facing competition, but for something claiming to be the "world governing body for professional freediving competitions" etc etc this all looks decidedly amateurish.

Fair enough. Can't say I'm a big fan of the way some organisations and individuals promote themselves in freediving, but coming from a marketing background I understand it.

Trux - I definitely will in a week or so.

 

[cebaztian]

This was all bound to happen and is a natural part of freediving expanding/maturing.
When I was on the AIDA board I wrote a report predicting it.
I thought CMAS would move heavily into competition, but it seems they have the same flaws as AIDA. Sometimes it takes a healthy commercial interest to make things happen and expand.
I thought PADI would move into freediving education in earnest. There is so much commercial potential in it which has been far from explored.
I was wrong - it seems like it is SSI challenging.
It is obvious that someone must sooner or later offer freediving competitions to the masses, not only to elite. Simpler rules, simpler equipment, old school approach.
It could have been AIDA, instead it is SSI. There is room for both.
I for one welcome a bifins category and simpler rules.
What is worrying out of the perspective of AIDA is that SSI is smarter in their packaging and marketing.

What is happening now will prove to be good for freediving. More people freediving, more options. Hopefully all education systems can follow the same basic outline (8,16,24,32) and hopefully we will not have to see two world record holders in similar disciplines.

But I am ready to fight for top ten position in Bifins

Sebastian

 

[ThomasB]

The no packing rule is the single most stupid rule I've ever heard of for freediving competitions. With this rule the performances of William trubridge, Dave mullins, Herbert Nitsch, Natalia molchanova, Guillaume Néry, Ryuzo Shinomiya, Kathryn Nevatt (McPhee), Eric fattah, Guy brew , Ant williams etc, etc would not have been possible.

Well then Davide Carrera would be the world record holder

 

[Simos]

It is obvious that someone must sooner or later offer freediving competitions to the masses, not only to elite. Simpler rules, simpler equipment, old school approach.
It could have been AIDA, instead it is SSI. There is room for both.

While I agree with most of your points Sebastian, I am not too sure that there is room for both. If competitive freediving was to ever go truly mainstream, I don't even think there is room for CMAS and AIDA.

Competitive sports that don't have one universal set of rules and disciplines are always going to be obscure or at least not widespread in my opinion. This is almost by definition as different rules/disciplined divide the sport. You can't have a 'simple' version for the average joe and a more complex one for elite athletes.

Also what is really simpler about WSF? Equipment? The same - just split into two disciplines (which I believe makes total sense, even for depth disciplines - I never thought that bundling monofins and bifins together makes sense although I don't think that restricting the bi-fins to the flutter kick makes sense either).

The rules? I don't think WSF rules are simpler - just incomplete (for now perhaps).

My view is that for any sport to go truly mainstream, it needs to elevate the 'elite' athletes and make them well-known and thus provide them with commercial opportunities to become truly professional. Every single mainstream sport has its super-athletes: sometimes the sport goes mainstream because of even one such a super-athlete with the whole package, not just the performances but also the character, showmanship etc.

Eg I grew up watching Michael Jordan in basketball - i didn't want to play a dumber version of basketball, I wanted to play the same basketball he was playing. Same for football and so many other sports.

I see a competitive sport as a pyramid - you have to have the people at the very top that are truly world class in order to have a wide base. My belief is that you can't have a wide base full of amateurs in the competitive side of a sport - but once the competitive side is sorted out, then you can have a wider audience of people enjoying the activity on a recreational basis, under no set of rules (eg people that just swim for fitness or that jog).

I fully agree there is a big opportunity in freediving education but in my (inexperienced) eyes, this does not lie in the competitive side of things but in the recreational. ie having fun and enjoying the underwater world on one breath without caring about disciplines, rules etc but focusing on enjoyment.

 

[Mullins]

We already have more than one set of WRs. CMAS and AIDA.

Sounds like a good enough reason to add a third then. Why not a few more; one for each country perhaps?

 

[Mullins]

Personally I rather like the idea to exclude the packing. I do not understand why it should be unfair, when the rule applies to all WSF competitors.

Did anybody say it would be unfair?

 

[x_yeti]

Sounds like a good enough reason to add a third then. Why not a few more; one for each country perhaps?

It works for boxing

Seriously though, who decides which organisation is THE one. Based on age? That's CMAS. Based on number of participants? That could be WSF in a few years. Based on IOC representation? I think it'll come down to whichever organisation has the best athletes, which is AIDA right now. It could be any other organisation in future. If an organisation is weak, it'll die like F.R.E.E. If performances are weaker (like CMAS) they won't be respected by the majority of freedivers.

If there is doping control and comparable rules to AIDA and CMAS, then I see no reason why another organisation can't ratify world records.