2014 lunocet

[Chipswim]

Ol D. Diver!

So you are the actual photographer of these spectacular pictures. I'd say some of the most beautiful photos of any topic ever! Feed us more!

Didn't have much to add to the conversation about sharks mistaking people for some kind of prey...... Thinking the girls outfits may be a key...... VERY unlikely to identify them as anything but healthy human females!

 

[marginatus]

Yeah Noa, WT... "My fin? My fin?" and then you don't have the shoes???
Should have been sent to me

Ol Dirty Diver, don't bother about pics of you, those will do You won this thread!
(keep us posted on that 91m attempt... best of luck)

 

[Chipswim]

Experimented a little more with hand weighting today. Purchased two pairs of 3#/pair Gold's Gym weighted gloves from Wall Mart. ($10/pair)

This allowed me to wear two left gloves one with the weight on the front of the hand one on the back. Then my hands could overlap skin to skin as usual.

Worked well I thought!

 

[Kars]

Weight? - in KG please pounds is ok too, but the ounces are more difficult to translate into the metric system. ~36 grams = 1 ounce I believe.

Is to easy to have your hands on your head without sliding off?

Maybe a thin upper arm sleeve with inserted weights would also work and be comfortable?

 

[Chipswim]

1.5# / Hand = very near neutral for me......... 3# total. (2.2# = 1kg)

Glides well. Stabilizes opposite end of kicking movement.

Yes! I've seen arm weights. Have not tried them. The gloves were readily available so started there. Liked them well enough to use daily since. Other items that have never gotten a day off since the first try: Lunocet, skin suit, goggles, my chunk of tire!

Did retire my speedo when I turned 60..... Cause it embarrassed my daughter.

Reintroduced it when I was 61!!!!

 

[Philip Fennell]

Hello Fredd,

Great News! Ted got in touch and one of his Awesome hand made creations will be leaving his workshop the middle of next week and heading to North Yorkshire :-D

My invoice number is 1503. It's like being in a shoe shop waiting for your ticket number to come up on the display. Out of curiosity, what shoes have you chosen for your Lunocet Pro?

 

[Chipswim]

Many years ago I hooked a set of running shoes for track to a flat fiberglass Leader Fin because the rubber foot pockets failed. I choose them because of the threaded attachment points where the cleats attached......(photo with laces) Well that was a total fin flop and I retired the idea till Noa and Ted hit on the bicycle shoe brilliance!

I've actually worn through or destroyed a few pairs of bike shoes since. Here is a fresh photo moments ago of the Shimano Carbon sole road bicycle shoes awaiting the arrival of my Pro! They have the ratchet tightening upper latch I like and two lower Velcro closures.

You'll know you've made a good choice if no power is wasted between your feet shoes and fin!

You'll know you've made an EXCELLENT choice if the shoes also make your butt look perky! Didn't have photo of myself for that benefit so substituting a favorite '

'Ol D. Diver photo to make the point! See how nice that works!?!?!!

 

[neurodoc]

Chip, I notice that the cycling shoes you have chosen have some adjustment range front to back, for cleat attachment. When you attach the Lunocet foot plate, try to notice if these adjustment slots permit any rotational adjustment whatsoever (ie "toe-in"). Depending on the tolerances in the shoe, they may permit some. My Specialized shoes don't have any adjustment at all for the cleat attachment points, with all of the adjustment being provided by the cleat itself-which means zero adjustment with the Lunocet foot plate. I'm planning on my next shoes having some toe in possible if I don't mod the Lunocet to provide it before then. Oh, and...nice butt! LOL

 

[Chipswim]

Will do N. Doc! We are on the cold side of that huge storm dominating USA today. Driving over to Wyoming hoping to find a bigger pool today. Sustained winds over 50 mph three days in a row!

 

[Fredd]

Hello Fredd,
My invoice number is 1503. It's like being in a shoe shop waiting for your ticket number to come up on the display. Out of curiosity, what shoes have you chosen for your Lunocet Pro?

Hello Philip, I didn't really know which shoes to get as I have no cycling background. So I decided how much I wanted to spend and chose these:-

http://www.tweekscycles.com/cycling-clothing/road-bike-shoes/sidi-logo-road-shoes

I got a couple of sizes larger than my normal shoe size and also got some neoprene socks, for comfort/warmth.
Won't honestly know if they are any good or not till I try them with the Lunocet pro

 

[Philip Fennell]

... I'm planning on my next shoes having some toe in possible if I don't mod the Lunocet to provide it before then.

neurodoc, I've never known of any Look-style shoe having any built-in facility for rotational positioning with respect to the cleat. As you say, that's normally accommodated in the cleat itself. With this in mind, I think it would be useful to have some scope for setting the angle of the shoe with respect to the plate on the Lunocet. I don't have mine yet but I'm intrigued to see how it feels.

 

[neurodoc]

It is different than any of my other fins, but feels the most natural. It really does seem to be "what I've been looking for" in a balanced fin that performs well and is fun to use. I hope you enjoy it, Philip!

 

[Chipswim]

Neurodoc,

May I ask what you are feeling that makes you interested in some foot/shoe rotation?

On the bike it would usually be knee discomfort... Usually on long rides or even many long rides and you want the shoe to clete to pedal interface to allow foot rotation to be free over a few degrees of movement on the full rotation of every pedal stroke... The reason I'm asking is that I haven't had the question I think you are asking arise in my own swims. All feels fine in that area.

I have been some curious about the effects of a longer or shorter lever between feet and fins. AA's history of the Lunocet in pictures in his Pro review clearly show Ted has tried close to the toes.

I also tried close to the toes in some of my efforts and the propulsion just died. Actually died incredibly! So that is a very responsive variable! I infer longer = more thrust till we run short on motor or start breaking equipment again. Maybe using the adjustment you observed on my shoes to lengthen or shorten a tiny bit may be interesting? (I get the impression Revan has choices or adjustability in that area... Not positive though.) Worth looking at for sure since it will be so easy to try on my shoes. Doing it that way will also do what that shoe adjustment is designed to do on the bike by moving the lever for and aft a tiny bit maybe half an inch total on the balls of the feet. Who knows what that might mean for us on our fins? On the bike.... Back is said to be better for climbing so I usually mount mine all the way back.

Being over sized climbing is a constant battle for me but I can usually free wheel faster than others can pedal going down...... It's likely there are corresponding personalized fin discoveries just ahead for all of us right now! Should be a neat time of discovery!

 

[Chipswim]

Hello Philip, I didn't really know which shoes to get as I have no cycling background. So I decided how much I wanted to spend and chose these:-

http://www.tweekscycles.com/cycling-clothing/road-bike-shoes/sidi-logo-road-shoes

I got a couple of sizes larger than my normal shoe size and also got some neoprene socks, for comfort/warmth.
Won't honestly know if they are any good or not till I try them with the Lunocet pro

Reading the info on the Sidi shoes you provided I notice they really emphasize the superior gripping qualities of their Velcro. That is so interesting! I think Ted uses Sidi shoes with Velcro closures also and has been very happy with them. I wondered how he could be satisfied with Velcro only?

Not the ones I have now but some of my Shimanos had Velcro which could not stay secure under the immense strain of fin swimming. That led me to strongly prefer the ratcheting top closure. I think your Sidi shoe choice with the high quality Velcro will be fine.

In the water very tight shoes feel fine. Partly because we want perfect power transfer from feet to shoes to fin. AA literally pulling the tops off his shoes would never happen pulling bicycle pedals through a perfect circle! For me shoe tightening preference is opposite on the bike. I like loose there. I think your socks will compress in the water. I usually use thin cloth socks in the pool so I choose shoes that are tight.

 

[Fredd]

Not the ones I have now but some of my Shimanos had Velcro which could not stay secure under the immense strain of fin swimming. That led me to strongly prefer the ratcheting top closure. I think your Sidi shoe choice with the high quality Velcro will be fine.

In the water very tight shoes feel fine. Partly because we want perfect power transfer from feet to shoes to fin. AA literally pulling the tops off his shoes would never happen pulling bicycle pedals through a perfect circle! For me shoe tightening preference is opposite on the bike. I like loose there. I think your socks will compress in the water. I usually use thin cloth socks in the pool so I choose shoes that are tight.

Thank you for the info, I now feel a bit better about my choice of shoe. Sidi shoes are supposedly quite tight and they recommend going a size larger than normal. The size I bought are tight on my feet in just a cotton sock and difficult to get on with the neoprene sock. Like you say the neoprene will compress and in the U.K. waters I guess my feet will shrink a bit with the cold. Hopefully there's enough adjustment with the velcro to keep them secure.

 

[neurodoc]

Chip, the reason I am interested in slightly toe-in positioning is that if I hold both my legs straight and try to point my toes as much as possible, a toed-in position allows much better hydrodynamics. A slight toe-in is more normal on a bicycle pedal as well, though I do not toe in when walking or running. As to fore/aft positioning, a longer lever favors higher pedal or fin speed but less torque; cleats more toward the heel make it harder to spin but more torquey. With fins, this measure would optimize differently with different swimmers. I think I could benefit from a bit more length of lever, but my legs/ankles/feet are pretty strong for my physical size from years of fairly hardcore cycling. This would mean I could have higher fin speeds and still provide enough torque. As in all things manufactured for the human body, it is always a compromise that works for the most people! And, I'm not complaining as it does work quite well for me as it is.

 

[Chipswim]

Chip, the reason I am interested in slightly toe-in positioning is that if I hold both my legs straight and try to point my toes as much as possible, a toed-in position allows much better hydrodynamics. A slight toe-in is more normal on a bicycle pedal as well, though I do not toe in when walking or running. As to fore/aft positioning, a longer lever favors higher pedal or fin speed but less torque; cleats more toward the heel make it harder to spin but more torquey. With fins, this measure would optimize differently with different swimmers. I think I could benefit from a bit more length of lever, but my legs/ankles/feet are pretty strong for my physical size from years of fairly hardcore cycling. This would mean I could have higher fin speeds and still provide enough torque. As in all things manufactured for the human body, it is always a compromise that works for the most people! And, I'm not complaining as it does work quite well for me as it is.

Well said Neurodoc! Just noticing how my legs move together when raising the outside of the balls of my feet.... Out by the pinky toe... This is a positioning trick we use in barefoot water skiing to direct the spray away from our faces....

Something you could very easily experiment with... In the photo you can see I've trapped white nylon washers between the foot Plate and the shoe. ( A crude experiment with fin angle adjustment) If those were inserted only on the outside it would raise the outside of your feet creating much similar effects to rotating the shoes more pigeon toed. That takes zero permanent equipment mutilation and would at the most require a few such washers and maybe a bit longer bolt.

Kind of a cool idea. Thanks for raising the issue! Think I'll try this myself. It should work for me too even though I'm naturally a bit duck footed. I like the mental check of feeling my knees touch each other during the power movement of the monofinning stroke.

 

[Chipswim]

Ok.... Tried what I suggested you try. Used 2 washers per shoe. Still able to use the same bolt. Will know more in the morning after swimming it.

Unfortunately, also discovered I'm well on the way to pulling the top off these shoes like AA did in the review ¡ Hope post man brings Pro tomorrow or I'll have to steal it's shoes ¡

N.Doc, Also tried the shoe rotation thing you asked about earlier. There is a little.

 

[neurodoc]

wow, Chip...you sure tear up some equipment! #1 Honorary Destructive Tester I'm looking forward to what you think of the Pro, though it seems you may need to get some waterproof construction adhesive before that...

 

[marginatus]

You can add a chainsaw to these pictures and I won't be surprised
Mine is arrived in Portugal and is in the move.... maybe next week?!