AIDA Results Register

[mortenkv]

Impressive...
Im sure there are more ways to use this database than I will ever find out (even thou I alredy spent hours inside it... )

But, I was wondering if there is a way to show STA+DYN+CWT (eg. the disciplines for Team WC) combined...

Like Dave Mullins in 2008: 8.11, 248m, 108m - and combine the points...

Maybe it could be a "disicpline" like "Skanalopetra, Jump blue, Team WC (STA+DYN+CWT).

A very usefull tool to check out the the teammembers of other nationalities for the up and coming WC in Japan...

If you want to check out the danes from 2009- you can do it here:

Landshold Ranking. Hold-VM i Okinawa, Japan
Scroll down to see the male team.
Morten

 

[trux]

Combinations are not ready yet, but are in plans too. I previewed combinations for pool, depth, and all disciplines, but will add STA+DYN+CWT too.

 

[trux]

The question is how to do the combinations at best. There are many ways possible. So for example, at the STA+DYN+CWT combination, one of them is adding up all STA, DYN, CWT performances in given scope (year, region, ...), another one is picking up the best performances of each of those disciplines, probably more sense makes looping through all competitions and selecting the ones where the combination was the highest. Then perhaps accepting DNF results instead of DYN, and CNF instead of CWT would make sense too. Unfortunately at the huge amount of data, the later options are already quite demanding on the resources of the system, so some additional measures need to be implemented to allow such reports.

Well, in the first step I'll probably simply pick up the best performances of each of the disciplines in the combination group and in given scope (even if they were not done in the same competition), and show the total (the sum of the points of each discipline max). Is it what you are looking for?

 

[osusim]

bug in statistic: selection of men only or women only in gender presents empty table.

I don't think top10 presents anything helpful, some competitions have strong athletes, some ones have average but many competitions have less then 10 male competitors (there everybody have top10 mark). And girls (except WC) always came to top10

First step for implementation of combinations must be combinations of regular competitions: STA+DYN/DNF, STA+DYN+DNF, STA+CWT etc. Will be good if competition description title will also contain such information (according to official announcement). Then will be easy to see real result list of a competition.

 

[trux]

bug in statistic: selection of men only or women only in gender presents empty table.

Yes, thanks, indeed. Did not see that, but it is fixed now.

I don't think top10 presents anything helpful, some competitions have strong athletes, some ones have average but many competitions have less then 10 male competitors (there everybody have top10 mark). And girls (except WC) always came to top10

Well, plenty of the reports have somehow limited value, for diverse reasons. You could say the same about the statistics of medals, about the averages, or about the sums of points, WC finals, DQ's, and others - they all are misleading in certain way, and you can find some problem with every of the report. But all of them have some informational value anyway. It is not that much important to have each of the individual reports there, it it the assembly of them that can help you getting a better picture. And even when looking at those "useless" reports, you can discover interesting things - for example that there are freedivers who remarkably pop up there while being on modest positions in other reports. You can find differences among diverse regions and groups, etc. You can understand the huge pack of data only if you look at it from all possible angles.

So yes, you are right, the report itself alone may be uninteresting, but together with all others, it can help you finding interesting paradoxes, or unexpected results, or confirm previewed patterns. So I will keep it there.

First step for implementation of combinations must be combinations of regular competitions: STA+DYN/DNF, STA+DYN+DNF, STA+CWT etc. Will be good if competition description title will also contain such information (according to official announcement). Then will be easy to see real result list of a competition.

As I wrote already a few times - combinations are in plan, but the development takes time. Using the word "must" makes your message sounding little bit aggressive, and is more demotivating than encouraging. But perhaps it is only my own perception of many of your posts.

Although many of the ideas or the planned features look very simple, as if you could make them with a few mouse-clicks, they are usually far to be trivial to code, and each of them opens a bunch of new hurdles to overcome in the programming. Hence you will need to keep your patience before it is done. Feedback, bug reports, wishes, and even critics are very welcome, but using words like "must" is not very appreciated.

Besides the programming being rather complex, I waste most of my time with the searching, converting, fixing, and entering the data, where nobody was willing to help me with. Only little of my time remains free for the actual programming, so it goes forward slower than I'd like. And unfortunately, even the new AIDA Board just apparently decided AIDA will not use the advantage we now have, and instead of using the elements already available for fully automated data collection (registration through Freedive Central, and data consolidation and transmission to AIDA Result Register through APNEA.cz), AIDA wants to go on with manual data handling until AIDA's own system is operational. And since we'll be busy with the manual data handling, we'll have less resources free for the software development, so the situation from the last year may easily repeat again.

 

[mortenkv]

Well, in the first step I'll probably simply pick up the best performances of each of the disciplines in the combination group and in given scope (even if they were not done in the same competition), and show the total (the sum of the points of each discipline max). Is it what you are looking for?

YES!

And unfortunately, even the new AIDA Board just apparently decided AIDA will not use the advantage we now have, and instead of using the elements already available for fully automated data collection (registration through Freedive Central, and data consolidation and transmission to AIDA Result Register through APNEA.cz), AIDA wants to go on with manual data handling until AIDA's own system is operational. And since we'll be busy with the manual data handling, we'll have less resurces free for the software development, so the situation from the last year may easily repeat again.

NO! ?? I hope there is good explanation for this...

 

[all names taken]

even the new AIDA Board just apparently decided AIDA will not use the advantage we now have, and instead of using the elements already available for fully automated data collection (registration through Freedive Central, and data consolidation and transmission to AIDA Result Register through APNEA.cz), AIDA wants to go on with manual data handling until AIDA's own system is operational..

No formal decision has yet been taken by the Aida Excutive Board on this issue.
The question stil lies within the IT workgroup, where Eric RvP is still evaluating a hybrid Aida-FC solution, that could be an interim solution before a fully operational Aida competition and result registry ranking system.

Sit tight and wait some weeks more.

Besides the programming being rather complex, I waste most of my time with the searching, converting, fixing, and entering the data, where nobody was willing to help me with.

Your hard work is impressive and I urge anyone with some sparetime to enjoy the apnea.cz data collection.

But understand, Aida is trying to repair a long time of neglect of the Aida ranking - no hasty decisions are needed in this work.

Sebastian Naslund
Aida Media/PR

 

[osusim]

As I wrote already a few times - combinations are in plan, but the development takes time. Using the word "must" makes your message sounding little bit aggressive, and is more demotivating than encouraging. But perhaps it is only my own perception of many of your posts.

I didn't write that you must to do something e.g. combinations. :t

 

[trux]

Never mind, I just managed to complete them and added them anyway. Currently only in the "competitor stats" report. I had to split it into two separate reports, because the table grew too big. So now there are "competitor stats 2" with the less interesting info, and "competitor stats" with the best performance, sum of points accumulated, average performance, number of performances, and then with four different combination sums:

1. all: sum of the PB's of all competition disciplines (STA/DYN/DNF/CWT/CNF/FIM)
2. pool: sum of the best STA / DYN / DNF
3. depth: sum of the best CWT / CNF / FIM
4. mix: sum of the best STA / DYN or DNF / CWT or CNF (perhaps I should add FIM as an alternative too?)

Of course, you can select sorting by any of them by clicking the respective header, and you can change the scope (year, region, club, gender, federation). Changing the discipline in the menu won't have impact on the combination.

Well, perhaps I will change the system in another way (displaying only one combination at a time - according to the selection of the "discipline" select box, which may be more logical, but for the moment I found more interesting to have all the combinations on the same page.

Some interesting numbers there. Herb as expected has the all time global top in the "all" and "depth" combinations, but interestingly Tom Sietas still holds the throne of the pool king. Interesting is also that Natalia comes second after Herb in the unisex category.

EDIT: I just see there is probably some bug - I miss some names in the sorted lists, on ranks they should be. For example Jarmila Slovencikova disappeared somehow. I will have to look at it tomorrow. So please take the results as incomplete and incorrect at the moment.

 

[osusim]

In "competitor stats" after selection of any combinations Alexey Molchanov is filtered out. I guess he should be somewhere in top5.

 

[trux]

Yes, as I wrote in my previous post, there is some problem with the database indexes, and some competitors are missing when the sorting is used. I am looking at it, but it may take some time.

 

[osusim]

Other bug: for many athletes combinations presents with 0 points, e.g. see Natalia Avseenko.

 

[trux]

It is not a bug. As I told there are problems with the indexes, hence I have reset it all and will need to reindex the database. Untill it is done, it will remain blank.

 

[trux]

Well, it should be fixed now. Though I did not test yet all the modes and all the sortings, so if you find any glitches in any of them, let me know.

I also changed the tables in the way I wrote yesterday: in the "competitor stats" mode, in the first numeric column after the name, you will see the best performance, or the sum of best perfromances from the given combination. Hence only one combination per table (not all four like it was in the preliminary version yesterday). You have to select the desired combination in the discipline select box - you can choose either an individual discipline, or one of the four combinations: comb (STA+DYN+DNF+CWT+CNF+FIM) / pool (STA+DYN+DNF) / depth (CWT+CNF+FIM) / mix (STA + DYN/DNF + CWT/CNF/FIM). The choice "all" in the discipline select box will list all disciplines, and the performance which generated the most points to the given competitor (at some it may be STA, at another CWT, hence no homogenity here).

I did not yet look at all the group reports (country, continental, regional, club, federation), so there will be likely more work needed.

 

[Mullins]

Awesome piece of work Trux, and much appreciated. AIDA could use this kind of no-nonsense tool to provide a replacement for the ICARE awards, perhaps with similar categories to the ones you've used. Transparent and accessible, much better incentive than just hoping you have plenty of vocal friends.

 

[Goran Colak]

Awesome piece of work Trux, and much appreciated. AIDA could use this kind of no-nonsense tool to provide a replacement for the ICARE awards, perhaps with similar categories to the ones you've used. Transparent and accessible, much better incentive than just hoping you have plenty of vocal friends.

That's more then true!! Impressive work Trux... OUTSTANDING!

 

[osusim]

some bugs related to connection of numbers and names:
- usage of Next/Previous button in <all performance>/<best performance> mode for any discipline increases/decreases number to a 100 but presents all names from first 100 names only.
- usage of Next button in <competitor stats> mode for any discipline Men/Women only increases number to a 100 but present names from N position less then expected. Bug not visible in ALL mode, so I guess a number taken from ALL list instead of MEN/WOMEN list.

 

[trux]

Yes, that's correct, the pagination needs some rework. I am aware of that, and have it in works, but it will take some time.

 

[trux]

Thanks, Goran, Dave, and others!

As for awards, Dave - yes, it is in works too. Well, the AIDA system is not yet quite so far, but I guess it will indeed happen. At AIDA, the priority is now getting the registrations automated. As you heard, the proposal to use temporarily Freedive Central opposes important resistance, so the development of own system must be now priority. The user interface is less important, since there are actually two of them quite fine - besides mine, also the original Result Register which already runs on AIDA's server. Using my system directly on AIDA's server wouldn't be straightforward - there are some technical and logistic barriers. I will open my source code, but since it is written in a little known programming language, AIDA may not want to use it, since finding other developers for making changes, or maintenance in case of my unavailability would be quite complicated. Porting it to PHP, Java, or Python would be certainly possible since I offer the code, but it would be a rather long and complicated job. The easiest and quickest would be embedding the output from my server on AIDA's pages, but when discussing the Freedive Central issue, I was told the policy is that AIDA cannot connect itself with private "commercial" initiatives, so that will be probably not possible either. So currently it looks like that at least in the first stage AIDA will use the current Result Register system, and APNEA.cz will feed it with data (at least until AIDA's registration system is working).

However, as Sebastian told, this is still all in the phase of discussions, and no specific decision was taken.

I will announce APNEA.cz awards pretty soon (including all performances in the database, even those non-ranking, and non-AIDA). And I will announce awards also retrospectively for all years, back to 1999. I just need to buy all those cups and Suunto watches that I will have to mail to the winners!

In the meantime, for those who do not like it complicated and too sophisticated, I created a simple ranking with no menu. It's just a single table with the athletes with the highest combination points for all competition disciplines. It shows nothing else than names, nationalities, and the combination points. The default table is global (all time, all countries, all federations) and you can access it directly with this link:

http://apnea.cz/ranking.html?simple

But you can also append the country, region, club, gender, federation, or year to the URL in the way I described in one of my previous posts, to get a more specific ranking. (note: I think the federation switch does not work right now in this mode, but I will fix it later too)

Some examples:

http://apnea.cz/ranking.html?simple+10 - all time Top Ten
http://apnea.cz/ranking.html?simple+2009+EU - European ranking for 2009
http://apnea.cz/ranking.html?simple+M - male-only table
http://apnea.cz/ranking.html?simple+FR - French all time ranking

 

[trux]

And this is a screenshot of the simple All Time Top Ten Ranking table for those who are too lazy for clicking the links I posted:

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