AIDA World championship indoor 2011- Lignano

[trux]

Congrats, Goran. Amazing performances, and beautiful attitude.

As for the statics - who touched Alexey? Was it again the same coach as in Aarhus? Didn't they manage to pull the protest like then?

I felt really sorry for Guy - but making 1:16 under a packing BO may be kind of a record too, and perhaps he'd deserve a medal anyway, wouldn't he?

 

[mermaidgirl]

Congratulations Goran and we certainly mentioned ALL your events in the Aida post. The static is a great achievement but everyone was just so excited about the DYN that we forgot to mention it. Very impressive,indeed!

 

[Kattie]

6 athletes is a statistically very insignificant number and easily misleading, since each single failure will skew the results completely. On my mind, Goran did not win DNF, because he gave it up already in advance - with all respect to Goran, it was clear from his reaction here that he had absolutely no confidence in making a great swim in the 50m pool. On my mind it was more a mental problem than the real impact of the pool size. Might have been similar for some others too.

However, I do not claim that the pool size has no impact at all. Of course, there are differences. But it may be to the advantage of some (especially shorter freedivers, fast technical swimmers), while to disatvantage of others. Such is a life. But in average the difference is negligible, and even for those where the pool lenght is to disatvantage, the difference is much lesser than anticipated.

I find your analysis quite interesting. In a few months time I'll be adjusted to teaching in my new university and I think that it would be fun to do proper regression analysis on this perhaps we could run some tests using the size of athletes as a variable. Do you have data from other comps that used 50m pools for DNF? The samble is quite small for now (though it would stll be fun to do).
In the end, the sport is about swimming not pushing so even if it's harder the winners should be the ones who can swim further no matter the size of the pool. Fred did not win because taller athletes lost their advantage, he won because he was the best on the day and did a really strong performance. Perhaps there should be more DNF in 50m pools... Of course it will be hard but that's part of the sport.

 

[apneaboy]

Congrats, Goran. Amazing performances, and beautiful attitude.

As for the statics - who touched Alexey? Was it again the same coach as in Aarhus? Didn't they manage to pull the protest like then?

I felt really sorry for Guy - but making 1:16 under a packing BO may be kind of a record too, and perhaps he'd deserve a medal anyway, wouldn't he?

Didn't Tom Sietas do a pretty good hold after a packing blackout in a world champs? 2005? Like 6 mins something?

I'll go and see if I can find it

edit: http://www.glennvenghaus.com/freediving/articles/WK2005.php 6:13

 

[Kars]

It was a crazy 10 days in Italy by all means.

Lets start from DNF, there is a lot of talking about 25m vs 50m pools, and jeap it is harder in 50m no doubt about it, roughly 10-15m at 200m dive. Of course it is less for Fred and more for divers like Tom Sietas as someone sad earlier. And believe me I did not give up wining the DNF event, because I got scared of 50m pool, I did not win coz Fred was better and dive longer.

The DYN finals... well before anything I just have to say THANK YOU to all athletes who singed that piece of paper, that my dive was OK and I should be given a white card. This is really amazing!!! But thing that shocked me the most is that later I found out that my protest will probably be rejected if the official video clearly showed me being touched by the safety. So I just got lucky... right? It's just blows my mind that this dive was questionable at all, but that's just me I guess... and 100 more athletes at the site.

To safety that touched me, as I sad to him personally at the pool site, I hold no grudge, and I am not mad at all, what he did was act of happiness that he wanted to share... he did not want to DQ me, I know that, and for that reason I can never be mad. All is fine, don't lose your sleep about it

No one comments static I see... maybe is the best to not talk about it at all, never again

Goran the things you, the safety and we endured, brought out the best in us.

An act worthy of a true champion.

:inlove

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[trux]

Excellent memory, Steve! OK, I admit that 1:16 in comparison to 6:13 after losing plenty of air during a packing BO is leaps away. So Linda's chicken medal for Guy then only.

 

[laminar]

This has probably been discussed before: what about short course vs. long course records as in swimming?

DYN: short course being a disadvantage
DNF: long course being the disadvantage

Been annoying for record keeping, though. I like simple record categories.

Having everything in a 50m pool may inspire new training and equipment approaches to make it easier.

By the way Goran, you have hereby accorded an invitation to the 2013 Kits Pool Challenge in Vancouver, BC. One length is 137.50m...so you were just shy of a full lap.

2 laps: 550m. Cash prize for that one!

Big kudos for the person who can swim a full lap DNF. :duh

http://www.peterraab.ca/assets/images/blogger/kits pool.jpg

 

[sgnips]

again, congrats to Goran, being there has been so exciting
congrats to Fred, too: i've been proud safety diver on his 207 dnf

congrats to my mentor and coach Gaspare Battaglia, though he's been disqualified forgetting the noseclip on... ouch!!! that noseclip would have meant a 3rd place, avoiding protest and counter protest and counter counter protest between Ulf and Alexey

me i'm just enjoying my 15th place STA and can't stop telling everyone

 

[Jouskari]

Jeez, seems like the STA finals were pretty dramatic too. Could someone tell me in short what happened? There is very little info out there (here)

 

[Pelle31]

Best impression of the WC is when Goran walks slowly over to the sad safety that was sitting by himself at the FAR end of the pool and gave him the hand..Freediving can be cool sometimes.

 

[Goran Colak]

Congratulations Goran and we certainly mentioned ALL your events in the Aida post. The static is a great achievement but everyone was just so excited about the DYN that we forgot to mention it. Very impressive,indeed!

No, I was really serious when I sad that is better to not speak about this static at all I just got lucky this time, and won STA finals with a shy 8:10min. Or just everyone else got unlucky lool. I was completely shocked when I saw guys in final heat going up one by one... crazy.. dont know what happened to all of us in static, I did not see girls in any time related problems so we can't say it was from finals before this one. Or we can...? Maah it was from finals, add a minute to all of us

 

[trux]

This has probably been discussed before: what about short course vs. long course records as in swimming?

DYN: short course being a disadvantage
DNF: long course being the disadvantage

Just, as it was discussed above, it does not seem to be as simple as that. The disadvantage seems to be much lesser than one would anticipate, and at some it may even turn into an advantage. For many athletes the bottom profile is a factor more influencing their performance that the pool lenght, so should we create new categories for flat bottom pools, and those with a deep end? Another one for pools with a very shallow end? I guess it is indeed better keeping it simple.

By the way Goran, you have hereby accorded an invitation to the 2013 Kits Pool Challenge in Vancouver, BC. One length is 137.50m...so you were just shy of a full lap.

Great, I added it to the http://forums.deeperblue.com/freediving-science/71255-oversized-pools.html thread!

Are you really planning the competition 2 years in advance, or was it a mistake and it should read 2012 Kits Pool Challenge instead of 2013? If you have at least an approximate date, please send it to me together with some other details, so that I can put it on the competition calendar at Apnea.cz, and make some promotion to it there too. I hope you'll find some top athletes worldwide to participate there! Will be exciting to see what performances we'll see in such conditions. What is the depth profile? Constant depth, or is one end very shallow?

 

[Tigrotta Apnea]

All news and details from Lignano on APNEA ACADEMY forum (Italian language)
WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP INDOOR AIDA ALLA EUROPE EVOLUTION CUP 2011

Antonella

 

[UffeDex]

Jeez, seems like the STA finals were pretty dramatic too. Could someone tell me in short what happened? There is very little info out there (here)

It was one of those days!
Mighty Universe was for Mighty Goran this time!

As for myself I was very very relaxed but had still strong heart beats from some nervousity, still at rest pulse though. Strange, never experienced that before (normally the pulse goes up a lot).

Oxygen level in the pool room was very low, and air very hot.
I did my best for the day, 10 more seconds and I would dance myself into the dreaded red card. But then I personally range from 7:30 a lousy day to +9 a perfect day. I never really know when and how long it will be, there are too many parameters to tune.

I have no problems to step up third. Well, fourth after Alexey (no one can take away his 8:03 performance) who first got red, then white after protest (nothing was seen on the judges video since it was filmed from wrong angle). Hell no, not again I thought, now being more experienced this time.

So I protested the protest with the arguments that if the video couldn't show anything, and the 2 (!) judges judgement was not enough to convince the other judges, hence free the athlete to his benefit, then we may end up in a strange situation for the future (as probably happened many times), undermining the importance of judges - every one can protest anything vasically. The fun part came when Alexey protested the protest of the protest

Remove the rule!
Alexey was worth the bronze!
But, as rules curently apply and since I "was stolen" the silver 2009, I had no problems taking the bronze this time. I'm normally a nice guy, and I also like to see myself as a sportsman, but I do have my limits ;-)

But I'm truly sorry for the coach to whom I send my "humanly love" !!

Goran for Presidente!!
Also, I congratulated his trainer who (appearently) has done a good job with the croatian team!
See and learn??

Again remove the "touch" rule!

Remove also the "grab to surface" rule, it is also stupid. We tend to teach and preach safety first, but this "safety operation" is for some reason banned.

 

[Jouskari]

Omg, that is some drama indeed. Well I truly belive that the amount of yellows, reds and protest actually will finally spur the technical committee to revise the rules. Hopefully already next year.

Regarding the rules. For my part I could leave all of those parts still in the rules, but just change the sanctions for them. e.g.

Grab = 1 p pen (2 m)

Touch = Red card, but if the judge deems there was no benefit to the athlete, he could change it to a white card immediately. Or even by protest and jury vote later. (now there is no space for reasoning in the rules)

however the touch rules still needs to be in place to prevent athletes from "waking up" by being touched by their coach or safety, doing the protocol within the 15 s. and still by the rules should be granted a white card.

From now on. If I was Alexey, I would ask the coach to stay atleast 2 m from me at all time. It has already cost him two medals and protest money. :/ And it´s a really simple rule to follow.

 

[Will]

Something that was on my mind, but I didn't check until now, was the case of the tie for silver in DYN. Guy and Brew both announced 1m, and finished with the same number of points, but the relevant rule to decide tied results is:

3.2.6.3
In the case of an equal number of points, the winner of an event will be the one (athlete/team) with the smallest difference between announced performance (AP) and realized performance (RP).


The difference between AP and RP was 250 for Guy and 260 for Mikko, so by 3.2.6.3 Guy should have been awarded silver, with Mikko bronze.

Now I hate the grab rule as much as the next guy, and I think Mikko's incredible swim should be a clean 261 points and new national record, but is this a case of our rulebook not being followed to the letter?

 

[trux]

I was wondering exactly the same. Especially because I made the effort in the ranking software and worked on the sorting algorithm to follow the rules exactly to the letter, so it displays the medals accordingly (Guy silver, Mikko bronze), and it is a bit disturbing it now does not match the distributed medals

However, I completely agree that Mikko would deserve the silver and the NR

 

[UffeDex]

Something that was on my mind, but I didn't check until now, was the case of the tie for silver in DYN. Guy and Brew both announced 1m, and finished with the same number of points, but the relevant rule to decide tied results is:

3.2.6.3
In the case of an equal number of points, the winner of an event will be the one (athlete/team) with the smallest difference between announced performance (AP) and realized performance (RP).


The difference between AP and RP was 250 for Guy and 260 for Mikko, so by 3.2.6.3 Guy should have been awarded silver, with Mikko bronze.

Now I hate the grab rule as much as the next guy, and I think Mikko's incredible swim should be a clean 261 points and new national record, but is this a case of our rulebook not being followed to the letter?

But isn't this weird?
That can't possibly match "the rule" when 2 athletes do the same result but have announced differently?
The athlete that announced the higest result wins!

In this case, then Mikko would have the silver and (my brother in breaths) Guy would get the bronze? Same points, but longer distance for Mikko.

Humble Guy let Mikko have the medal at the prize ceremony (there was only one)

 

[trux]

No, according the rules first the points (not RP), then the RP-AP difference is decisive for the rank. The smaller the difference, the higher rank - hence since (251-1) is smaller than (261-1), Guy should have the silver. If they announced differently, and got the same points it is still the RP-AP, not the AP alone, that decides.

 

[UffeDex]

No, according the rules first the points (not RP), then the RP-AP difference is decisive for the rank. The smaller the difference, the higher rank - hence since (251-1) is smaller than (261-1), Guy should have the silver. If they announced differently, and got the same points it is still the RP-AP, not the AP alone, that decides.

Yes, well, rules may not be correct, I still don't see the logic here... What is the purpose? Surely the longer performance should be rewarded higher than the shorter if at same points and same announcements?

Or is there a hidden pinpoint here that a clean(er) performance is to be awarded higher?