European Union Consultation – Including ban on use of projectiles .

[atomichaggis]

I'm done with politics. I suggest keeping your spearguns loaded when you leave the water and if approached by a bailif.... LOOSE! Also a riot in london would be great, its been a while.

 

[Padaxes]

Well I've rounded up a few signtaures for the petition and my friend at DEFRA said it sounds ridiculous and will ask around about it.

 

[Tong]

Can the admin on deeperblue send a email to all the members on the site asking them to sign it??

 

[Mr. X]

I mentioned the proposal to a couple of keen flyfishermen/colleagues today. They thought it was ridiculous. One said "That's a stupid law. You should just ignore it." They both questioned why the current government feels the need to control everything. I think we're all wondering that (as the country spirals out of control). They seem to be in self-destruct mode and keen to take the rest of the country with them.

 

[gloinx]

Sorry guys, I not native and dont know some of the words, but i dont think they are gonna go against all european industry based on spearfishing, european brands are leaders in the field, there is lot of fans in the Mediterranean, and in the worst of the cases i agree with what James T says .

 

[Mr. X]

Sorry guys, I not native and dont know some of the words, but i dont think they are gonna go against all european industry based on spearfishing, european brands are leaders in the field, there is lot of fans in the Mediterranean, and in the worst of the cases i agree with what James T says .

Good point Gloinx. Their initial exclusion of the med. suggests that they know that would not get approved. They are trying to "divide and conquer". First the Atlantic, then the Med & Baltic. Fox Hunting was "the thin end of the wedge". If we allow this to continue other forms of hunting, shooting and fishing will be next. The NRA in the USA have already encountered this whittling away of rights and freedoms. They have also learnt how to deal with it: unite and give no quarter, no concessions. That's why I think the Countryside Alliance could be an important ally.

BTW Interesting idea about the TV chefs. Another colleague sent me a link to the River Cottage forum, apparently some malcontent called SurfNSpear has started a similar thread of discussion there (good on ya Surf). Check out the bow hunting thread there too if you have time. Hugh Fernley-Wittingstall has snorkelled on some of his TV shows, has he speared yet? I guess Gordon Ramsey might prefer to forget his escapade, although it sounds like good viewing (missed it twice - must check youtube). What about St. Jamie Olivier - he has that place on the beach in Newquay, Cornwall now? Or Marco Pierre White - the deer hunter. Antony Wirral-Thompson, no fan of this government. Mr. fish himself, Rick Stein (of Padistein, Cornwall)? Keith Floyd? Who is Sparticus?

 

[Mr. X]

First MEP response, Roger Knapman, UK Indepedence Party (good to see at least UKIP are on their toes). Looks very positive:

from: piersmerchant@X
Sent: 23 June 2008 10:59 AM
To: X
Subject: Re: Letter from your constituent X

Roger Knapman MEP has asked me to thank you for your email and to reply as he is currently travelling to Brussels.

He is most grateful to you for drawing this issue to his attention and certainly agrees with you. He will do what he can to help.

He feels this is typical of Brussels over-regulation and it is why he prefers to see such matters dealt with in our traditional way - by a democratic vote in the House of Commons after and open and wide public debate.
Best wishes

Piers Merchant
Assistant to Roger Knapman MEP

 

[Mr. X]

Next up Glyn Ford, European Parliamentary Labour Party, Socialist Group. A statement of fact and no commitment to cause or action but a timely response. Not too hopeful on this one but you never know.

From: Glyn Ford MEP [mailto:mep@glynford.com]
Sent: 24 June 2008 03:30 PM
To: xxx@xxx.xxx
Subject: FW: Letter from your constituent R


Dear X

Many thanks for your email regarding spear fishing and the concerns you have regarding Article 31 of Council Regulation 850/98.

I will certainly pass on your thoughts to Mr Ford who can raise this issue in relevant meetings.

Thanks you for taking the time to write and please do not hesitate to contact us should you have any other queries.

Yours truly
Stuart Emmerson (Political Officer to Glyn Ford MEP) European Parliamentary Labour Party Socialist*Group
*
Belle Vue Centre
6 Belle Vue Road
Cinderford
Gloucestershire
GL14 2AB
England
Tel:* +44*(0)1594 827193
Fax: +44 (0)1594 829953
*
The European Parliamentary Labour Party is an integral part of the Socialist Group in the European* Parliament. Labour's Euro Parliamentarians, are guided by the values of the labour movement and the British Labour Party and represent their voters so as to advance democracy, social justice, prosperity, peace and sustainable development in the UK, EU and throughout the world.

 

[Mr. X]

If you live outside the UK or EU, you might still be able to sign. The petition website makes special provision for these categories:

Expatriate
Armed Forces
Anguilla
Ascension Island
Bermuda
British Antarctic Territory
British Indian Ocean Territory
British Virgin Islands
Cayman Islands
Channel Islands
Falkland Islands
Gibraltar
Isle of Man
Montserrat
Pitcairn Island
St Helena
S. Georgia and the S. Sandwich Islands
Tristan da Cunha
Turks and Caicos Islands

 

[Mr. X]

Article 12

Destructive fishing practices

The catching, retention on board, transhipment, storage, landing, sale, display or offer for sale of marine organisms caught using methods incorporating the use of ... any kind of projectile shall be prohibited.

Isn't a cast fishing hook, ledger weight, fly, plug, pirk, spinner or lure a projectile as much as a catapulted spear on a line?

Dictionary.com:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
pro·jec·tile Audio Help /prəˈdʒɛktɪl, -taɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pruh-jek-til, -tahyl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. an object fired from a gun with an explosive propelling charge, such as a bullet, shell, rocket, or grenade.
2. a body projected or impelled forward, as through the air.
–adjective 3. impelling or driving forward, as a force.
4. caused by impulse, as motion.
5. capable of being impelled forward, as a missile.
6. Zoology. protrusile, as the jaws of a fish.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1655–65; < NL, neut. of prōjectilis (adj.) projecting. See project, -ile]

...
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This pro·jec·tile Audio Help (prə-jěk'təl, -tīl') Pronunciation Key
n.
A fired, thrown, or otherwise propelled object, such as a bullet, having no capacity for self-propulsion.
A self-propelled missile, such as a rocket.

adj.
Capable of being impelled or hurled forward.
Driving forward; impelling: a projectile force.
Zoology Capable of being thrust outward; protrusile.


[New Latin proiectile, neuter of prōiectilis, that can be thrown, from Latin prōiectus, past participle of prōicere, to throw out; see project.]

 

[scottwilson]

Mr X ever thought of a job with defra, you seem to have your head screwed on properly. GOOD EFFORT

 

[dave]

First MEP response, Roger Knapman, UKIP (good to see at least UKIP are on their toes). Looks very positive:

I got exactly the same response. I have an sneaking suspision it may be the standard UKIP response to any question involving Europe

cheers
dave
Spearguns by Spearo uk ltd finest supplier of speargun, monofins, speargun and freediving equipment

 

[Mr. X]

Mr X ever thought of a job with defra...

Heck no! Can you imagine having to implement every daft whim of the minister against your own judgement? On the other hand, I'm sure some of them are contributing significantly to the discussions. It would be interesting to know who came up with this proposal (minister/civil servant/advisor/commercial fishing/S. Wales fishery/foreign govt./pressure group/PETA/...). There'd be no spearing or fox hunting ban though.

I got exactly the same response. I have an sneaking suspicion it may be the standard UKIP response to any question involving Europe

cheers
dave
Spearguns by Spearo uk ltd finest supplier of speargun, monofins, speargun and freediving equipment

It looks to me like there are at least two standard replies, vague support (Yes) and no committment (No).
i.e. UKIP's response and Labour's response (who are probably responsible for the proposed change).

Still no Conservative response. I wonder what's going on there?

 

[Kinky]

Dear mates,

I live in Italy therefore i've no problem with this stupid law at the moment. But I support your fight. In the future they will try to do the same in the Med area.

Go on for all of us

 

[SurfnSpear]

I got exactly the same response. I have an sneaking suspision it may be the standard UKIP response to any question involving Europe

cheers
dave
Spearguns by Spearo uk ltd finest supplier of speargun, monofins, speargun and freediving equipment

And my brother and I.....

 

[Morgan33]

Isn't this legislation already inplace in the baltic sea? see http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2005:349:0001:0023:EN:PDF

Spearfishing still continues in the Baltic. I would suggest that destructive fishing and the term projectile is not meant to encompass spearfishing.

 

[Huan]

As with so many things in the EU legislation in one country can be interpreted as many ways as you want.
Unfortunately with the regimes in place in the UK and Ireland the likely way that bailiffs and fishery officers will interpret the law is to the letter, ie if you are found spearfishing or indeed with a speargun and a fish then you will be done.
In France, Spain and Portugal the large numbers of Spearos and the lack of relative enforcement this will probably not be an issue of this magnitude and indeed when the authorities look at the proposed bill they will very likely make the correct judgement that this does not apply to their recreational spearos.
However this will probably not be the case with Ireland and the UK which already suffer from (over)zealous enforcement compared with other EU states.
I actually work in this area, not legislation but the commercial application of technical conservation measures and I have already made a submission to the SFPA/DAFF via my line manager who assures me he will raise this issue in our submission.
I have also made a submission via contacts in the SFPA and they will also make this point in their submission.
I would urge you to add your voice to the debate by either contacting your MEP, signing the petition or otherwise contacting your local agency, in the UK DEFRA Ireland would be the SFPA and the Dept of Agriculture Food and fisheries.
To ignore this may be to sign the death knell of spearing.

regards

Huan

 

[Wanny]

Just heard about this, thought it was a joke at first. Will be signing the petition and seeing what else can be done. Not sure to what extent this would directly affect the Channel Islands but either way I am sure we would just bring our legislation into line.

On the tv chef point, Rick Stein has a (delicous) skate recipe in his food heroes book which he talks about local spearfishermen in their 50s going out to fish for skate - so he must have a soft spot for it!

I am sure the equipment manufacturers must be aware of all this as well.

Terrifying.

 

[SurfnSpear]

The MEP's are on the case...(letter from an MEP to the Commissioner)

Commissioner Joe Borg
European Commission
B-1049 BRUSSELS
BELGIUM

Dear Commissioner Borg,

I am writing in relation to the Proposal for a Council Regulation concerning the conservation of fisheries through technical measures. I have concerns about an aspect of this proposal, namely Article 12, on Destructive Fishing Practices.

The Article in question reads, “The catching, retention on board, the transhipment, storage, landing, sale, display or offer for sale of marine organisms caught using methods incorporating the use of explosives, poisonous or stupefying substances, electric current or any kind of projectile shall be prohibited.”

This Article is updated from Article 31 of Council Regulation No 850/98, of 30 March 1998, which prohibited the use of explosives, poison and electrocution for the catching or sale of fish, but which merely prohibited the sale of fish caught by the use of projectiles.

I am in full support of the spirit of the Article, and I deplore the damage done to marine ecosystems by explosives and poisonous substances by fisherman in other parts of the world. However I am concerned that the phrasing ‘any kind of projectile’ could be taken to include the practice of spearfishing, a non-destructive and environmentally-friendly popular recreational pastime that involves the use of spears to catch single fish.

Because of the nature of the activity, spearfishing cannot be used to catch or kill large numbers of fish; it is also incapable of causing environmental damage, and should not therefore be grouped with poisoning, electrocution, or explosives as a destructive fishing practice.

I am sure that it is not the Commission’s intention to inadvertently outlaw spearfishing. I seek assurances that there will be legal clarification in the final document that the phrase ‘any kind of projectile’ will be clarified to exempt the practice of spearfishing.

Thank you for attending to this matter.

Yours Sincerely,




Sharon Bowles MEP
Member of the European Parliament for South East England

 

[scottwilson]

Now thats a step in the right direction.