European Union Consultation – Including ban on use of projectiles .

[gutshot]

You really don't seem to read things very well, and just taking small quotes, missing the main bits are not really helping you when people can go back and read. Mr X and me get on fine. Didn't you have a pop at Mr X because you didn't read things thru before?

To be honest i am not really sure what your motive is on here now as you seem to be pushing to start a row? Why? This is a discussion about the change of law with regarding spearfishing

Lets look at what is going on. They are about to rewrite the law, possibly not in our favor! If it does manage to work out our way then they are still rewriting the law. This could mean speared fish could be sold or not depending on how the law is changed. Do you understand now?

Try to read things thru before you tap your keyboard again

 

[Pastor]

My God! You have got your knickers in a twist rofl

Now reading back there was minor talk of selling speared fish, right? I said let's just keep it simple and stick to the original goal and try to win, right? Dave agreed with me, right? Then you took it to be a personal attack or something. All I'm saying is don't go down that route!

 

[Mr. X]

Hey, did you realise that you can delete your own unwanted posts from threads?! Let's all remain friends.

Nobody here is campaigning for the sale of speared fish, just pointing out that an easy way to ammend the text of the document would be to remove all references to "projectile" from the document, the only loss would be this archaic restriction, and any stigma associated with it. There is no such restriction on rod caught fish (or perhaps there is, as it involves fishing with a projectile if casting is involved). The cost and hassle of obtaining a commercial licence will remain a very significant deterent.

Another simple way they could fix the document is to make spearing and rod fishing specific exclusions from the articles therein. There is already a section for exclusions; scientific research is one such exclusion.

 

[gutshot]

Sure dave agreed with you. Devondave agreed with me but who agreed with who seems worthless now and as i said before, everyone is highly stressed with what is going one so we both need to draw a line under this and fight the rubbish from the EU and not start to pick holes in each others messages.

Anyway i go commando. I don't wear knickers

 

[turunc2006]

What is pretty evident about all this is is that we just don't know what specific changes the EU Commission tried to implement via this new proposal. All we're looking at is the resultant wording of the prepared proposal as it stands and it would help if there was a document that detailed the specific changes they WERE trying to effect.

As has already been admitted (by direct contact with the Commission) is that the proposal wording has managed to create intentions it didn't mean according to this apparent subsequent statement (via MEP Neil Parish - see page 10 of this thread) that they did not intend to ban spearo.

Our thread started with a great deal of concerted passion and effort to pull together to let the EU know we want the legislation reverting back to what it was i.e. to not imply a ban of spearfishing in our waters. And this effort has been brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a result we have made loads of contacts with our respective local MEPs/MPs (and DEFRA) who are the people we need to register our objections with. My 2-page objection e-mail (seen by Kev) set out the basics and reasoning behind my objection and pointed out suitable amendments to the proposal to correct things. The more objections to these people from members the better so let's channel our energies into this.

Let's get back on track and keep going AS WE WERE guys and let's continue keeping each other informed on feedback - especially from the MEP's.

 

[Mr. X]

Take no notice to the above message Mr X. Just using both of our names as an example. I know you bought your yak with dirty cash. Those poor fishrofl

roflI can't catch enough to keep the family in fish, let alone others. Catching, preparing and eating fresh fish though has given the family a greater appreciation and knowledge of sea food. We depend on the local fishmonger to keep us going though, the weekly mackeral, occasional herring, sardines, etc. (we avoid cod, although occasionally have haddock). In fact, we buy more fresh fish since I've been spearing than we ever did before.

 

[gutshot]

None of the fish from the local fishmonger have funny holes thru them do they?? rofl

 

[turunc2006]

Just received this reply a few mins ago after doing a few resends.


So it's a vote from us up here in the North West this time.


Will ask to be kept informed of the EU timetable for their action from now on with a particular eye on their EUR-lex system for THE amended proposal.


************************************************************************


Thank you for taking the time and trouble to contact Mr Sajjad Karim MEP in relation to your concerns about the Proposal for a Council Regulation concerning the conservation of fisheries resources through technical measure and the implication this may have on the recreational spearfishing in the European fisheries area of the North Atlantic.


I have been made aware from other MEPs assistants that many people are contacting MEPs in relation to the possible implications of Article 31. I have been informed by my colleague that he contacted the Commission’s Department of Maritime Affairs (DG MARE) regarding the proposed changes to the Technical Conservation Regulations; to which he received the following reply:


“The Commission tried to prepare a new simplified and clarified proposal on technical measures, in the structure and also in articles. On your point (Spearfishing-the point my colleague raised) we must check on what is a projectile. However, we can confirm that it is not the intention of the Commission to prohibit recreational spearfishing.

If not clarified already, the article concerned with be corrected and clarified later during the discussions”.


Consequently, I am of the general understanding that you do not have cause for too much concern as it would appear that the necessary rectification will be made here. I hope that you find this somewhat reassuring.


With kindest regards

Lucy Pickles
Assistant to Sajjad Karim MEP
Conservative Member of the European Parliament Representing the North West
Tel: 0161 860 7572
Fax: 0161 860 7582
Email: info@sajjadkarim.eu
Website: Sajjad Karim
P SAVE PAPER - Please do not print this e-mail unless absolutely necessary

 

[gutshot]

That sounds more like it. I still want to see it for real though!

 

[Mr. X]

Sounds encouraging. It's interesting to see which politicians are responding and it will be interesting to see how many see this through. Might have to start prodding for updates later in the week/early next week.

 

[SurfnSpear]

Good to hear the varied MEP's are all in the loop...it's the same response as Neil Parish 5 days ago...

> Subject: RE: Letter from your constituent
> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 15:46:14 +0200
> From: neil.parish@europarl.europa.eu
> To:
>
> Dear Mr ,
>
> Thank you for your e-mail regarding the EU potential ban on
> spearfishing.
>
> It seems you are not alone in fearing the possible implications of
> Article 31 - many consituents have written to me regarding the same
> issue. However, on contacting the Commission's department for Fisheries
> and Maritime Affairs (DG MARE) regarding the proposed changed to the
> Technical Conservation Regulations, the following reply was received:
>
> "The COM tried to prepare a new simplified and clarified proposal on
> technical measures, in the structure and also in articles. On your point
> (spear fishing), we must check on what is a projectile, but anyway we
> can confirm you that it is not the intention of the Commission to
> prohibit recreational spear fishing. If not clear the article concerned
> will be corrected later during the discussions."
>
> Thus it seems you have nothing to fear from the proposals. I hope this
> puts your mind at rest.
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> Neil Parish MEP

 

[Mr. X]

Good to hear the varied MEP's are all in the loop...it's the same response as Neil Parish 5 days ago...

It looks like the Conservatives are coordinating this centrally. Although I haven't heard back from my Conservative MEP since her initial response; nor my MP come to think of it. Surprised we didn't hear back from the Labour chap, thought he'd have a direct line to "the ministry". Did anyone hear from the UKIP chap in Newton Abbot/Torbay?

 

[turunc2006]

It looks like the Neil-Parish original response doing the rounds, but this MEP (Mr Karim) has lodged his own personal enquiry and will send me the response when his PA Lucy gets it. Lucy also adds further words from MEP Struan Stevenson (see below) which say a bit more about what the EU was trying to ban via the proposal.

She also suggests the postal and fax details of DG-MARE is the way to enquire about the now intended timetable of events to get the proposal amended. An e-mail address for them would be nice.

********************************************************

Thank you again for getting in touch. That was indeed a speedy response!

I have been in contact with Struan Stevenson MEP's assistant who has confirmed that the contact made between another colleague (Mr Neil Parish MEP) and the Commission, as I stated in the previous email, is correct.

Mr Struan Stevenson is in fact the Conservative Spokesperson on Fisheries and has confirmed that the regulation does not target recreational spear fishing. The regulation is intended for guns involved that use explosives, such as those used for dolphins and whales; practices which are banned within the EU anyway.

I can confirm that Mr Karim has also contacted the Directorate-General for Maritime Affairs and Fisheries (DG MARE) in relation to the matter and we are currently awaiting a response. When we receive a response I will of course be in touch.

Further to your request about finding further information as to dates, targets etc, I would advise that you contact the DG MARE; they can be contacted by post on:

Directorate-General for Maritime Affairs and Fisheries
Unit for Information and communication
European Commission
B-1049 Brussels

Or by fax on:

32 2 299 30 40

I hope that this is of assistance.

Kind regards
Lucy Pickles
Assistant to Sajjad Karim MEP
Conservative Member of the European Parliament Representing the North West
Tel: 0161 860 7572
Fax: 0161 860 7582
Email: info@sajjadkarim.eu
Website: Sajjad Karim
P SAVE PAPER - Please do not print this e-mail unless absolutely necessary

 

[turunc2006]

There's a Contact Us via e-mail link on their website via

European Commission - Fisheries - Contact

 

[turunc2006]

More from Mr Karim's PA regarding tracking the proposal.

******************************************************

The best person to contact would be Struan Stevenson MEPs office who would be most adept at keeping you up to speed given that he is the Spokesperson to the Conservatives in the European Parliament.

I will endeavour to follow the 'ins and outs' of this too and let you know of any developments I hear.


Many thanks

Lucy

 

[turunc2006]

I've now got the Labour Fisheries' leader on the case too!

************************************************************************************************

Thank you for your e-mail about recreational spearfishing in the North Atlantic and for letting us have your postal address.

Mr Titley MEP has asked his colleague Catherine Stihler who leads for the Labour side on fisheries, to let him have the latest position on this issue.

He will be in touch with you again as soon as he has the information at hand.

Yours sincerely
Roger Fellows

.....................................
Euro Office:
16 Spring Lane
Radcliffe
Manchester
M26 2TQ
Tel 0161 724 4008
Fax 0161 724 4009

 

[Mr. X]

I worry that the EU is creating such broad laws with so little scrutiny or thought. The document certainly doesn't look like it has been scrutinized by lawyers. We were lucky that Rab brought this to our attention - otherwise we would never have heard of it, until it became law. The EU seem to wield far more power than they are able to safely handle IMHO.

Interesting to hear what the original intention was. I would think replacing the phrase "marine organisms" with "marine mammals" with specific regard to "projectiles" would achieve their original goal.

Perhaps "projectile" should be replaced with something more specific too, e.g. "fire arms" with a clear definition of that phrase (e.g. "a weapon that uses an explosive charge", specifically excluding band-power spearguns and pneumatic spearguns). This phrase might be more challenging to get right.

Spelling out that spear fishing and rod fishing are specifically excluded in the Exceptions-section would, of course, still be desirable.

 

[KWM]

Hi, Just got this message back direct from the European Commission. It does not say much more than the contact already received from MEPs. But does state again that the issues will be addressed.

Dear Sir, Thank you for your e-mail. Following your question regarding the consultation paper on proposed changes to EU Council Regulation 850/98 and in particular the banning of projectile fishing, please note that the European Commission tried to prepare a new simplified proposal on technical measures, in structure and also in articles. On your point (spearfishing), we must check/precise on what is a projectile (no definition) but we can, however, confirm that it is not the intention of the Commission to prohibit recreational spearfishing. If this is unclear, it will be corrected later before the adoption by the Council of that regulation. Yours sincerely, Information and Communication UnitDirectorate General Maritime Affairs and FisheriesEuropean Commission1049 BrusselsBelgium

regards Kev

 

[turunc2006]

I have a reply from Struan Stevenson's PA. It details the timetable of stages for the proposal to be adopted as EU law, but doesn't initially answer all the things I requested answers for. Also I'm going to try and find out if these meetings are minuted for public view anywhere on their websites. I've been looking at some of the EU website meeting agendas in the last few mins and it looks like some sort of video streaming may be available. This needs further research. ​

**************************************************************************************************​

Thank you for your e-mail. ​

The proposal, which the Commission only presented on 4th June 2008 is currently being dealt with in the Fisheries Committee in the European Parliament. (You can find the complete proposal attached for your information.) It is in a very early stage in the Parliament and the Rapporteur, who is Mr. Stevenson's Dutch colleague in the EPP-ED Group and on the Fisheries Committee - Mr. Cornelis Visser - has only been appointed on 2nd July 2008. The first exchange of views with the European Commission took place in the Fisheries Committee yesterday afternoon. ​

This dossier is going through the consultation procedure, i.e. the Council of Ministers will have the final say on the Commission proposal. Although the European Parliament has a consultative role only, the Council cannot act before the Parliament delivers its opinion. The European Parliament Fisheries Committee is likely to adopt the proposal in December 2008 and in plenary on 14th January 2009, after which the proposal will be adopted in the next Agriculture and Fisheries Council in Janury/February 2008. It is only after this that the proposal will become legislation and be published in the Official Journal.​

I have contacted Mr. Visser's office this afternoon regarding any other important dates and will forward you their response should they have any additional information.​

Kind regards,​

Anna Dmitrijewa​

Parliamentary Assistant to STRUAN STEVENSON MEP

Vice-President of the EPP-ED Group

Conservative Member for Scotland​

European Parliament

Rue Wiertz 60

Brussels B-1047​

Tel: 0032 2 2847710

Fax: 0032 2 2849710​

email: struan.stevenson@europarl.europa.eu

website: www.scottishtorymeps.org.uk​

Sent: 15 December 2008 19:22

To: STEVENSON Struan
Cc: KARIM Sajjad; info@sajjadkarim.eu
Subject: RE: Objection to the EU Proposal (2008/324) for a Council Regulation which implies a ban on recreational spearfishing in the European fisheries area of the North Atlantic.​

Dear Struan.


I have been contacting my local MEP's to object to the EU proposal 2008/324 which has recently scared many UK recreational spearfishermen to death as it implies a ban on their sport in the North Atlantic.


I've been informed today that you as Conservative Spokesperson on Fisheries can confirm that the regulation does not target recreational spear fishing. "The regulation is intended for guns involved that use explosives, such as those used for dolphins and whales; practices which are banned within the EU anyway."


This is indeed good initial reassurance, but what I am seeking is more detail about the process that will NOW review and get this proposal corrected. Do you currently have a (detailed) timetable of the relevant meetings and milestones and their dates and in particular when an amended proposal will be placed in EUR-lex on the website?


(For your information, please find below the detailed objection I prepared in case the proposal HAD meant to now implement a ban on UK recreational spearfishing.)

I'd like to see as a bare minimum, recreational spearfishing explicitly put in the EXCEPTED ACTIVITIES section of the proposal (i.e. excepted from the regulation) to make it crystal clear and free of any doubt.


Thanks for your time.


I look forward to your reply.
​

 

[turunc2006]

I think she probably meant 2009 when she typed the final January/February 2008 date!!!!