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Exhale Diving for the "average" diver
- Thread startercdavis
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
no, the high HR i do only 30 min,
and i do 1 long run a week for around 1.5 h seems that i need this 1 for my mental prep and general thinking !
i spent like 5 hours average a week,..it is only for 2-3 month
and after all that skydiving/freefly it is nice to move different
YouTube - babylonfreefly's Channel
after the high season i have time to train more and it isn t that hot here anymore
are you still training, eric?
and i do 1 long run a week for around 1.5 h seems that i need this 1 for my mental prep and general thinking !
i spent like 5 hours average a week,..it is only for 2-3 month
and after all that skydiving/freefly it is nice to move different
YouTube - babylonfreefly's Channel
after the high season i have time to train more and it isn t that hot here anymore
are you still training, eric?
Hey fflupo,
Sorry about the long reply havent been to a computer for a while. To answer your question
"on FRC how long can you sprint for in the pool, means no glide constant kicks?
and are your legs burning big time after the sprint? do you monitor any HR etc. after dive and 3 min after?"
i havent really given much of a go, regarding how long i can go for 50m sprints with short plastic hockey fins are no worries. Legs dont feel to bad from doing the sprints just a little bit fatigued but nothing major. However im finding that my level lactic acid build greatly depends on how much work i do during the day im on my feet all day so they get a work out. At the moment im trying to increase the amount of time i can swim dynamic for when i train frc static then dynamic. At the moment its not really 50/50 usually i do 2:00 to 2:30 static then a 50m swim usually at 80% effort (no glide). On occasions though when i have first jumped im prior ot no warm up i have managed a 1:30 static and a 75m dynamic at 75% and sprinting the last 25m (With bifins). That whole dive took 2:50.
Fflupo do you favour more to the no warm up static then dynamic or do you do a couple of warm ups before hand? Cheers mate..
Just throwing it out there has anyone experimented with and diet changes towards frc training ie Gone vegen taking supplements that sought of thing?
Cheers guys,
Kyle Treloar
Sorry about the long reply havent been to a computer for a while. To answer your question
"on FRC how long can you sprint for in the pool, means no glide constant kicks?
and are your legs burning big time after the sprint? do you monitor any HR etc. after dive and 3 min after?"
i havent really given much of a go, regarding how long i can go for 50m sprints with short plastic hockey fins are no worries. Legs dont feel to bad from doing the sprints just a little bit fatigued but nothing major. However im finding that my level lactic acid build greatly depends on how much work i do during the day im on my feet all day so they get a work out. At the moment im trying to increase the amount of time i can swim dynamic for when i train frc static then dynamic. At the moment its not really 50/50 usually i do 2:00 to 2:30 static then a 50m swim usually at 80% effort (no glide). On occasions though when i have first jumped im prior ot no warm up i have managed a 1:30 static and a 75m dynamic at 75% and sprinting the last 25m (With bifins). That whole dive took 2:50.
Fflupo do you favour more to the no warm up static then dynamic or do you do a couple of warm ups before hand? Cheers mate..
Just throwing it out there has anyone experimented with and diet changes towards frc training ie Gone vegen taking supplements that sought of thing?
Cheers guys,
Kyle Treloar
Hi all,
Wondering if anyone has tried doing some longer dynamics on exhale. Did a couple of dives over the weekend on somewhere between full exhale and passive exhale. Came up feeling good on both, little bit of lactic on the DYN but no hypoxia. No sensation of getting clise to the limit but now about 75% of my limit for inhale with 25+packs.
Still a little concerned about what might happen in the event of a blackout and keen to know if anyone has experienced and was there any water asperation.
Phil C
Wondering if anyone has tried doing some longer dynamics on exhale. Did a couple of dives over the weekend on somewhere between full exhale and passive exhale. Came up feeling good on both, little bit of lactic on the DYN but no hypoxia. No sensation of getting clise to the limit but now about 75% of my limit for inhale with 25+packs.
Still a little concerned about what might happen in the event of a blackout and keen to know if anyone has experienced and was there any water asperation.
Phil C
Hi Phil,
Last year, I did a couple of 100m+ FRC dynamics (no static beforehand). I didn't do enough of them to really adapt and had been doing lots of 50m FRC sprints leading up to that. But I do remember feeling low on 02 at the very end, suddenly.
Funny how Static/Dynamic FRC often feels easier than a straight FRC dynamic.
Efattah has more experience doing FRC dynamics (in the ocean). Maybe look for posts by him on the topic.
Like anything, you've got to take it slow and learn how your body reacts to the new style. I only did it to see how it would go and get a sense of my capacity for max inhale before last year's indoor nationals.
Pete
Last year, I did a couple of 100m+ FRC dynamics (no static beforehand). I didn't do enough of them to really adapt and had been doing lots of 50m FRC sprints leading up to that. But I do remember feeling low on 02 at the very end, suddenly.
Funny how Static/Dynamic FRC often feels easier than a straight FRC dynamic.
Efattah has more experience doing FRC dynamics (in the ocean). Maybe look for posts by him on the topic.
Like anything, you've got to take it slow and learn how your body reacts to the new style. I only did it to see how it would go and get a sense of my capacity for max inhale before last year's indoor nationals.
Pete
Hey guys,
Hmm frc with no static, have toyed with it. Usually do a no warmup frc dynamic before i do my static then dynamic training. i have found that my distances are further then when i used to do inhale dynamics. On frc i just find it alot easier to relax, im not doing huge dynamics just over 100m with my freediving fins. I have pretty bad technique and cant dolphin kick. Usually im kicking bi fin style most of the time haha huge lactic acid build up from kicking using bi fin technique LOL.
Had an interesting experience last weekend was in about 7-8m of water, water temp was around 17 degrees. After i did some warm up dives, i decided to just work on bottom time with frc. Second dive was around 2:40 first contraction around 1:30. Next dive totally spun me out was on the bottom till about 2:10 and hadnt had a contraction, so thought something was wrong. I left for the bottom for the surface and just before i hit the surface had a really mild contraction. Hmm makes me think what i might have been able to do if i had of stayed down for longer. LOL I didnt change breathe up if anything i restricted my breathing a little more then usual.
Hey Pete,
In your previous post where you said
" I didn't do enough of them to really adapt and had been doing lots of 50m FRC sprints leading up to that. But I do remember feeling low on 02 at the very end, suddenly."
I to find that when i do frc dynamics it feels as though the urge to breathe comes on suddenly. 2 weeks ago it nearly caused me to have a samba. Its interesting though compared to when i first started doing them i can now do 75m on frc with short plastic underwater hockey fins and only get 2-3 contractions on the hole swim. How ever i find that the limiting factor for me is the lactic acid build up towards the end. I think i might have to learn how to dolphin kick properly if i want to be able to do some more serious swims.
Cheers guys'
Kyle Treloar
Hmm frc with no static, have toyed with it. Usually do a no warmup frc dynamic before i do my static then dynamic training. i have found that my distances are further then when i used to do inhale dynamics. On frc i just find it alot easier to relax, im not doing huge dynamics just over 100m with my freediving fins. I have pretty bad technique and cant dolphin kick. Usually im kicking bi fin style most of the time haha huge lactic acid build up from kicking using bi fin technique LOL.
Had an interesting experience last weekend was in about 7-8m of water, water temp was around 17 degrees. After i did some warm up dives, i decided to just work on bottom time with frc. Second dive was around 2:40 first contraction around 1:30. Next dive totally spun me out was on the bottom till about 2:10 and hadnt had a contraction, so thought something was wrong. I left for the bottom for the surface and just before i hit the surface had a really mild contraction. Hmm makes me think what i might have been able to do if i had of stayed down for longer. LOL I didnt change breathe up if anything i restricted my breathing a little more then usual.
Hey Pete,
In your previous post where you said
" I didn't do enough of them to really adapt and had been doing lots of 50m FRC sprints leading up to that. But I do remember feeling low on 02 at the very end, suddenly."
I to find that when i do frc dynamics it feels as though the urge to breathe comes on suddenly. 2 weeks ago it nearly caused me to have a samba. Its interesting though compared to when i first started doing them i can now do 75m on frc with short plastic underwater hockey fins and only get 2-3 contractions on the hole swim. How ever i find that the limiting factor for me is the lactic acid build up towards the end. I think i might have to learn how to dolphin kick properly if i want to be able to do some more serious swims.
Cheers guys'
Kyle Treloar
In the weekend I did a 103 DNF and 128 DYN both on exhale. I was judging a comp, so couldn't enter, but took the opportunity to have a go informally.
I started training exhale to try to improve my CWT but now they are getting interesting on their own merits. Although the DR coming on can be uncomfortable, having no contractions is nice (if a little spooky).
Any idea if anyone is doing serious long swims on FRC?
Phil
I started training exhale to try to improve my CWT but now they are getting interesting on their own merits. Although the DR coming on can be uncomfortable, having no contractions is nice (if a little spooky).
Any idea if anyone is doing serious long swims on FRC?
Phil
Hey crew its been a while since my last my post
Thought i would share my latest FRC results, went out on the weekend and finally got to have a crack at 30m on FRC. The spot i was diving on was The HMAS swan which lies in about 31m ot water. First dive i did was down to 25m and was suprised how easy it felt compared to when i went out last time. The next dive i the kept going down to 27m which is near my pb. That dive to was pretty comfortable. The next dive i went all the way to the bottom and clocked in at 30.2m besides from feeling a little squishy from 27m on wards, the dive felt really good. Also to top it off i didnt have any contractions at all during the dive. Even though the dive was only 1:20 long with the minimul breathe up method i use, when i get contractions usually it is the half way mark of the dive. Im absolutely stoked i got to break my old PB Cheers guys for all the help. One thing i did notice that was a little odd, was on the same day i did another dive to 30m and after sitting on the bottom for a while i felt a little strange. Almost a calm ere feeling, my heart rate dropped and for the first time felt the blood shifting from my arms and legs. I think i experienced a blood shift?!?!?!?!?
Pool training i have totally changed to doing static then dynamic swims, now doing a 2:15 static followed by a 1 min ish sprint usually covering about 50-60m. Limiting factor seems to legs still but im training with short stiff plastic fins and using bi fin technique. Will see in the next weeks how this type of training will start to affect my open water dive times but so far the results have been positive.
Cheers guys,
Kyle Treloar
Thought i would share my latest FRC results, went out on the weekend and finally got to have a crack at 30m on FRC. The spot i was diving on was The HMAS swan which lies in about 31m ot water. First dive i did was down to 25m and was suprised how easy it felt compared to when i went out last time. The next dive i the kept going down to 27m which is near my pb. That dive to was pretty comfortable. The next dive i went all the way to the bottom and clocked in at 30.2m besides from feeling a little squishy from 27m on wards, the dive felt really good. Also to top it off i didnt have any contractions at all during the dive. Even though the dive was only 1:20 long with the minimul breathe up method i use, when i get contractions usually it is the half way mark of the dive. Im absolutely stoked i got to break my old PB Cheers guys for all the help. One thing i did notice that was a little odd, was on the same day i did another dive to 30m and after sitting on the bottom for a while i felt a little strange. Almost a calm ere feeling, my heart rate dropped and for the first time felt the blood shifting from my arms and legs. I think i experienced a blood shift?!?!?!?!?
Pool training i have totally changed to doing static then dynamic swims, now doing a 2:15 static followed by a 1 min ish sprint usually covering about 50-60m. Limiting factor seems to legs still but im training with short stiff plastic fins and using bi fin technique. Will see in the next weeks how this type of training will start to affect my open water dive times but so far the results have been positive.
Cheers guys,
Kyle Treloar
Last edited:
hi kyle
nice work.. good to hear your training process, thanx
it is indeed a nice feeling of the blood rushing trough the arms and legs and entering the different state of mind .. i had to learn not staying for too long in that zone ;-)
can you hear your heart beat at depth?
how is the equalization and the load on the chest?
try not to fin(work out )down, it is better to freefall down and fin up, the reason for it is that it kind of stresses the torso to much on the way down, i used to do sprint training on exhale down and up and got some back problems..
and using little weights like 2-3 kg for a 5mm did not helped me either
you will see that the pooltraining helps your open water performance if you have the relaxation
wolf
nice work.. good to hear your training process, thanx
it is indeed a nice feeling of the blood rushing trough the arms and legs and entering the different state of mind .. i had to learn not staying for too long in that zone ;-)
can you hear your heart beat at depth?
how is the equalization and the load on the chest?
try not to fin(work out )down, it is better to freefall down and fin up, the reason for it is that it kind of stresses the torso to much on the way down, i used to do sprint training on exhale down and up and got some back problems..
and using little weights like 2-3 kg for a 5mm did not helped me either
you will see that the pooltraining helps your open water performance if you have the relaxation
wolf
The longest FRC dynamics I heard of were from the pioneer, Seb Murat, who did:
150m FRC dynamic with very short training bifins (2'07")
1'30" static + 100m DNF dynamic (3'30" total)
Personally I have done FRC dynamics in the ocean but I have no idea of the distance. The most I ever did was 81 monofin strokes on an FRC breath (horizontally).
Of course when I dove 72m on an FRC dive I covered 144m total, but I was sinking half the time
150m FRC dynamic with very short training bifins (2'07")
1'30" static + 100m DNF dynamic (3'30" total)
Personally I have done FRC dynamics in the ocean but I have no idea of the distance. The most I ever did was 81 monofin strokes on an FRC breath (horizontally).
Of course when I dove 72m on an FRC dive I covered 144m total, but I was sinking half the time
Thanks Eric,
I still think that your FRC dive to 72m is one of the coolest things I have heard of in freediving. This year is already set aside for Mouthfill training so I'll be doing some FRC dives in training but you can be sure they will be <<72m.
I spent a while trying to find some trace of Seb to see if I could get in touch but no luck.
I don't suppose you have any idea how I might contact him?
cheers
Phil C
I still think that your FRC dive to 72m is one of the coolest things I have heard of in freediving. This year is already set aside for Mouthfill training so I'll be doing some FRC dives in training but you can be sure they will be <<72m.
I spent a while trying to find some trace of Seb to see if I could get in touch but no luck.
I don't suppose you have any idea how I might contact him?
cheers
Phil C
Just returned from an eleven day trip to the Bahamas and did enough diving to get exhale down just right. Long dives for me, 1:40 to 2:00+, spearfishing dives in 50 ft were the norm. Come up when it felt right, not nearly out of gas. This is far, far beyond what I could do full lung. We did a wide range of types of diving, from pure line diving, to relaxed 50 fters to intensely aerobic spearing in 20 ft, short dives, short recovery, full lung. Varying my level of inhale, recovery breathing rate and recovery time to fit the conditions is becoming automatic.
Depth continues to improve. We did one morning of drops on the wall (bottomless), 90-95 ft was fine. Line diving a couple of days later and I hit 109 (33 m) and was hands free to 96, by far my deepest dive on exhale and deepest hands free.
Very pleased with performance.
Connor
Depth continues to improve. We did one morning of drops on the wall (bottomless), 90-95 ft was fine. Line diving a couple of days later and I hit 109 (33 m) and was hands free to 96, by far my deepest dive on exhale and deepest hands free.
Very pleased with performance.
Connor
This is a really interesting thread, thank you guys for sharing all this stuff. Lately I have started to try my pool training on about 50% inhale and I really like it. I am thinking of switching my pool training to some of the techniques discussed here. I plan to still dive on full inhale in the ocean because I am worried about the squeeze. I have a couple of questions though.
It sounds like training frc in the pool will help me with full inhale, as long as I keep my ribcage flexible so full inhale doesn't feel too tight. is this right?
Is it bad to mix the two styles?
Also connor you said you were diving 60% inhale I believe, so you are exhaling, and then inhaling to 60%? Some others make it sounds like you are meant to inhale and then exhale to your desired lung fill. so I am wondering which is correct (or if there is a correct way) and what the differences are? right now I am exhaling and then inhaling to ~50%.
I am still a beginner compared to most people on this board so I'm just planning to experiment with this stuff in the pool for now but I sure like the feel of it, and you guys have some pretty amazing results.
Thank you
It sounds like training frc in the pool will help me with full inhale, as long as I keep my ribcage flexible so full inhale doesn't feel too tight. is this right?
Is it bad to mix the two styles?
Also connor you said you were diving 60% inhale I believe, so you are exhaling, and then inhaling to 60%? Some others make it sounds like you are meant to inhale and then exhale to your desired lung fill. so I am wondering which is correct (or if there is a correct way) and what the differences are? right now I am exhaling and then inhaling to ~50%.
I am still a beginner compared to most people on this board so I'm just planning to experiment with this stuff in the pool for now but I sure like the feel of it, and you guys have some pretty amazing results.
Thank you
Hi Petej, welcome to the world of exhale diving.
There is no " correct" way to adjust your final lung volume. I started out exhaling last because that seemed more logical and easier to control. Discovered that, for me, it worked better to inhale last. Several other divers have found the same thing, but what works for you is more important.
I'm not sure how training exhale and diving full lung will work, suspect you will end up switching to exhale totally.
Connor
There is no " correct" way to adjust your final lung volume. I started out exhaling last because that seemed more logical and easier to control. Discovered that, for me, it worked better to inhale last. Several other divers have found the same thing, but what works for you is more important.
I'm not sure how training exhale and diving full lung will work, suspect you will end up switching to exhale totally.
Connor
Hi people,
Just a small heads up about my training experience today.
I did a small muscle warmup swim, and then went to the side of the deep end of the pool to prepare for my exhale dive. After getting a bit into comfort - avoiding hyperventilation, full forced exhale, and sinking down to - 3.80m feet first and stand there for about 40 seconds awaiting the first contraction, than swimming DNF. I was not expecting much because I did not sleep enough and ate a lot of food 3,5 hours ago - Paella. After the first 3 swim strokes I noticed how incredibly clear my mind was, and with a lazy sloppy strokes, wearing a very draggy suit I was surprised it went so well so I turned for another lane, which was also very easy, half way the 3rd lane I decided to come up because I did not want to risk a BO improving my exhale pb with 25m, to hit 62m. To my surprise it felt I was still a very long distance from BO, and my friend/buddy/safety also noted I looked very fresh when I came up. Also my muscles were not tired, though I'm sure they were used only anaerobicly. This is crasy! I plan on trying for 75m+ next time. But I begin to believe I may be able to do a 100m+ some day on an full forced exhale, crasy because my old DNF pb is 111m, that is with packing...
So FRC is starting to look really attractive, and I'm considering doing some Dutch depth records FRC style....
Just because I'm curious, what are the WR's in FRC diving?
Just a small heads up about my training experience today.
I did a small muscle warmup swim, and then went to the side of the deep end of the pool to prepare for my exhale dive. After getting a bit into comfort - avoiding hyperventilation, full forced exhale, and sinking down to - 3.80m feet first and stand there for about 40 seconds awaiting the first contraction, than swimming DNF. I was not expecting much because I did not sleep enough and ate a lot of food 3,5 hours ago - Paella. After the first 3 swim strokes I noticed how incredibly clear my mind was, and with a lazy sloppy strokes, wearing a very draggy suit I was surprised it went so well so I turned for another lane, which was also very easy, half way the 3rd lane I decided to come up because I did not want to risk a BO improving my exhale pb with 25m, to hit 62m. To my surprise it felt I was still a very long distance from BO, and my friend/buddy/safety also noted I looked very fresh when I came up. Also my muscles were not tired, though I'm sure they were used only anaerobicly. This is crasy! I plan on trying for 75m+ next time. But I begin to believe I may be able to do a 100m+ some day on an full forced exhale, crasy because my old DNF pb is 111m, that is with packing...
So FRC is starting to look really attractive, and I'm considering doing some Dutch depth records FRC style....
Just because I'm curious, what are the WR's in FRC diving?
Longest FRC performances I am aware of:
CNF 81m
CWT 72m
DYN 150m with small training fins
DNF Static 1'30" then DNF 100m
Pure static 6'30"
FI -- no known performance
NLT -- 100m
Variable - no known performance
If you make 100m DNF on a full exhale that would definitely be a world record.
CNF 81m
CWT 72m
DYN 150m with small training fins
DNF Static 1'30" then DNF 100m
Pure static 6'30"
FI -- no known performance
NLT -- 100m
Variable - no known performance
If you make 100m DNF on a full exhale that would definitely be a world record.
Nice Kars! I have had a similar experience recently training DNF. I have been training mid-day and using the metro or bike to get to the pool, hence I just take speedos and a mask. The session starts with a no-warm up dive, and because I use no lead or suit, is about 30% lung. Initially I would not make 50m on these dives, but day by day I increased about 4m, until I ended up near 75. The swims were very weird, despite being no-warmup felt very easy, and of course very fresh when finishing.
All went well and I had some troubles at work, then on my 75M attempt that day I could not make 50! Head!
Must get back in the flow, resetting my mental goal to 50m and advancing day by day again.
After the no-warm up dive we do a little technique, and then stat + swim as you describe. Starting at 40 seconds static, increasing 10 secs each, lying on the bottom then push and swim until it hurts. The swims would be about 1:00. We worked up to a 1:10 static. My best was a 2:20 DT, about a 45m swim. All this on 10% lung (really glued to the bottom!). On many of these statics I would have up to 5 contractions before setting off.
Pools closed for summer maintenance now so rhythm interrupted.
All went well and I had some troubles at work, then on my 75M attempt that day I could not make 50! Head!
Must get back in the flow, resetting my mental goal to 50m and advancing day by day again.
After the no-warm up dive we do a little technique, and then stat + swim as you describe. Starting at 40 seconds static, increasing 10 secs each, lying on the bottom then push and swim until it hurts. The swims would be about 1:00. We worked up to a 1:10 static. My best was a 2:20 DT, about a 45m swim. All this on 10% lung (really glued to the bottom!). On many of these statics I would have up to 5 contractions before setting off.
Pools closed for summer maintenance now
so rhythm interrupted.