Fin Lineup - Any Questions?

[icarus pacific]

Nice chart, Hammertime!

The shape of the Hybrids is similar to the Kelpies, but a 1/4" wider, making them also 1/2" wider than the Classics. The width never became an issue after I consciously made an effort to point the toes and the blades stayed away from eachother after that.

At 31"by 8-3/4" the Matrix blades I have, #3's, belong in the Long and slim column, as do I :t , but I'd hazard an educated guess that their makeup is also done in a vacuated press, then milled, as are the Omer BAT's, the difference there being that the BAT's are milled with CNC tooling.

Yeah, Mark- you have me over to the house, it'd be a good idea to remove the wife, girlfriend and poodle and stash the good china. But then there are no fish over there anyways...

 

[Jon]

We can get yours back in the water to try, but they felt just as stiff as yours did in whatever foot pockets you had on them. The only difference I remember between you foot pockets was that I could feel the flex of the fin in my arch with the Sporasub pockets on vs. not feeling it while wearing the OMER's.

The Shape of the classics are so wide I felt as if I had paddles on my feet. For a fin that works better for the up and down stuff, I would think a longer, and thinner, design would work better. If the Matrix are closer to the BAT fins, then they must be narrower because I don't remember having any issues with the BAT 30's knocking into one another when I swam.

The one thing I have always heard about the Matrix fins was to buy them softer than what you think you would need, but with the Classics, even with the straight blade, I would want to go much stiffer to get them to kick like I want them to.

The one thing that I forgot to mention in my previous post was the quality and workmanship of the fins. When Ted first got his, I knew that this was the company I wanted to buy my Monofin from.

The vacuum process during manufacturing really makes a difference. Back in my ski shop days we had 1-year warranties on all of the skis, which were made in the basic wood box, glass wrapped process. Then, Fisher came along with their Vac-tec series and increased the warranty to 3 years right off the bat. There were other differences in the vacuum molded skis vs. the others as well- like no "snap, crackle, popping when you flexed a new pair which was caused by all of the bubbles that got trapped in the mold during the manufacture process. It was a sleek ski with the best warranty, at the time, and it was all made possible by the vacuum technique.

Sorry for another long post,

Jon

 

[BladeRunner]

Sven where did you get your Matrix blades and what are the different blades and how stiff are they? What foot pockets did you put them in?

BladeRunner OUT

 

[icarus pacific]

The Matrix are more in line, shape-wise with the C4's, Jon. Bitchin' lookin' motors.

Blade- Give Paul or Dennis a ring at www.20fathoms.com or send Paul V. a PM or email from here for dakine service. The blades go from 20,30,40,and 50, most flexible to stiffest, or Ted-liest. I've got the 30's and as I noted in my fin write-up, there's nobody feeling less cramp-free at the end of the day and they still get me to wherever I point myself.

 

[Jon]

Matrix are more in line, shape-wise with the C4's

That would seem to make a lot more sense to me after using the Classic's.

Sven, are you bringing all of your toys out to Freedive-A-Palooza this summer? We'd really like to try out those Hybrid's and these Matirx's that you keep going on and on about.

Jon

 

[BladeRunner]

Oh I thought you were talking about the carbon fiber matrix fins.
I was looking at getting some at one point but reallydon't know how they hold up to regular use.

 

[Jon]

there's nobody feeling less cramp-free at the end of the day

Glad they helped with your cramps, but how's your bloating?rofl

Jon

 

[w3ac]

Blade,

Matrix blades aren't carbon, they are fiberplastic (fiberglass). They are pretty durable as mine are pretty scratched up but holding up nicely. They should work well for you.

Brad

 

[Murat]

Are you guys can tell which fin is better for surface swimming?

Kelpie medium-hard or C4 30-40?

Which ones saves more energy on the surface so let you dive deep after several hours non-stop surface swim?

 

[unirdna]

Murat,

Those two fins are a pretty equal match on the surface, as they both have the blade angle. And like any fins, the softer the blade - the easier the surface swim. I can go all day in my stereo hard blades. Jon starts to feel a bit fatigued after a few hours in his C4 40's. But then, Jon bought the 40's to go deep.....thus, he is considering a pair of C4 30's or SF Kelpie Med/Hard fins for spearfishing. In my experience the 40's were the stiffest of these fins....then the hards......then the meds. My guess is that 30's and stereo-hards would have pretty even stiffness (Tedness?).

Yo

 

[Jon]

So far I can only tell you that the Kelpie Medium is much easier for surface swimming, but that's probably due to the fact that it's softer than my C4-40's. Comparing them to a pair of C4-30's would be a better test.

Now, surface swimming with Kelpie hards vs. C4's is a bit tricker. I like my C4's and Ted likes his Specialfin's. THis could be because we are both trying to justify the huge amount of money we paid for our fins. We really should take them back in the water for a little head-to-head competition.

The Special fin's will frog kick better than the 40's will, but the 40's just have a better feel, to me, overall when it comes to a flutter or dolphin kick.

I think that Eric F. mentioned that the 40's dolphin kicked better than many lower end monofins.

As far as surface swimming oges, I have worn the 40's for up to 8 hours at a time and while I could handle it, my legs were a bit tired at the end of the day- which is why I am interested in the 30's.

Jon

 

[unirdna]

Nice to see our stories are consistent....when we wind up posting at the SAME TIME.

 

[Murat]

Thanks ted, seems nobody has C4 30 here, we have to wait a more to see how it performs on the surface and depth as well.

Just wondered are those C4 in general easier to swim on the surface compared to plastic fins? I have gara 3000 and just thinking about reference point to imagine it.

 

[unirdna]

I had a pair of 2000 HF's.

On a scale of 1-10, I would rate my cressis = 2

I would rate Jon's C4 40's (in Spora pockets) = 8

I would rate Specialfins Hards (in Spora pockets) = 9 (tied for the best I've ever used with Sporasub H. Dessaults - why "9" then? - ya gotta always want more )

I would rate a 2X4 with a bungie cord = 1.5.

That should give you an idea. Since your 3000's are somewhat softer (so I've heard) than the 2000HF's, you probably get around somewhat better. But with that oh-so-soft footpocket and the long-not much-angle blade....I gotta think that they would still be much slower than either C4's or Kelpies.

 

[Murat]

If C4 40 or Kelpie Hard is better or even same on the surface i will have no doubt to get 40 or hard kelpie. I feel great after 5-6 hours surface swimm with gara 3000.

 

[Bill]

>I would rate a 2X4 with a bungie cord = 1.5.

That is a very interesting comment. If you know how to get your hands on Skin Diver magazines from 68-70 or so, your description fits an impressive 'mono fin' design called Aqueon or something like that. Designed and built by an engineer out near Pasadena. He ran a small ad for a year, I think, and he did make a foil out of the 2x4. Best thing I ever strapped on for straight line finning. Wish I could try it again and see if my memory co-incides with fact.
Aloha
Bill
P.S. If some one in the US wants to gamble on a pair of C4-30s, maybe we can work out a deal to cut their losses if they don't workout.

 

[w3ac]

Ted,

Sorry if you mentioned this earlier but I can't seem to find it. Are the SF Hard the classic with no toe angle or the professional with angle. I was looking around the SF site and they have the professional freediving blade which is white and translucent and they have the bluewater spearo which is blue. Both blades cost the same but they don't list the dimensions of the bluewater. I like the blue for blue water but a translucent fin would work well over the reef as well as in the blue. Could someone with the kelpie (same fin as the bluewater except with camo) give out the dimensions? Maybe Jyri or Mikko could shed some light. Anyway, thanks for the help guys.

Brad

 

[Jon]

Pro, Kelpie and Bluewater are all the same, from what I've seen and tested- only the colors have been changed. The paint job on the Kelpie is very nice.

The Classic, is a straight blade, no angle, fin that sells for half the price of the others. You can look at a picture of them in one of my previous posts. The Classic is wider than the others- as can be seen in the pictures in that same post.

Hope that helps,

Jon

 

[Murat]

Originally posted by unirdna
On a scale of 1-10, I would rate my cressis = 2

I would rate Jon's C4 40's (in Spora pockets) = 8

I would rate Specialfins Hards (in Spora pockets) = 9 (tied for the best I've ever used with Sporasub H. Dessaults - why "9" then? - ya gotta always want more )

Is that specialfin hard classic model which you just said makes too much splash on the surface? are they better than kelpies on the surface?

Originally posted by unirdna
I would rate a 2X4 with a bungie cord = 1.5.

[/B]

Huh?
Kinda insider joke?

 

[unirdna]

Naw, just being a wiss ass mostly.........mostly.

Yeah Murat, the Classics are the ones that splashed a lot....as they do not have the blade angle. As Jon mentioned, stereopros, bluewaters, and Kelpies are all the same blade......and these do very well on the surface (presumably, because they do have the blade angle. From Jon's posts, he liked the Kelpie model better [than the classic model] for underwater and surface swimming .