Fin Lineup - Any Questions?

[Jon]

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, but Ted said what I meant.

THe Kelpies worked great on the surface because of the blade angle. The classics not only made noise on the surface, but also make a distinct "thwacking" sound when swimming underwater that I didn't hear with the other fins that I tried. Still, they are half the price of the other fins and fit a certain price point inbetween plastic and fiber so you can't complain too much about them.

I have to say that I am, once again, very imppressed by the quality and detail that go into the Specialfins. They have a great rubber rail that goes around the entire fin. It goes from thin, under the rails, to thick along the lower part of the blade to make rails, and then wraps around the bottom edge to protect the fin tip. Now, compare these to my C4's, which are exposed at the tip, and you have some impressive detail.

It doesn't end there though because that upper rial, the thin one, offers a great place for your foot pocket rails to clamp onto. Contrast that to my C4 blades, which only have a thin cord of carbon fiber glued onto the top and bottom edges of the blades for you foot pockets to clamp onto.

Mine have almost totally fallen off and I have had to reglue them at least once. If you go back through some old posts on blade repair you'll see pictures of what I am talking about.

Jyri, from Speacialfins, sent me some of his rubber rail material to glue onto my C4's, but I would have to completely remove the carbon rail remenets to put them on. I guess that I will wait a little longer, like until they come all the way off, before I do that. Maybe Mark knows if they have fixed this problem?

Jon

 

[icarus pacific]

I missed that "thwacking" or "oil-canning" sound, but then I was in the deep blue, er, green sea and the attendant noises may have masked them. Perhaps it was caused by your really working the fins? Give them a try w/o horsing them and get back to us.

 

[ivan]

Matrix fins pool test

hi

I just got back from a bit of testing with my new Matrix fins all I can say is WOW, INCREDIBLE, BEYOND EXPECTATIONS

Firstly I jumped into the 50m pool with my plastic fins and warmed up a bit slowly increasing each attempt, I was having an extremely bad day though and could only manage 60m with a close samba using the plastic fins. Although my Pb with the plastics is 90m, today I just couldn't go any further.

I was very annoyed and gingerly grabbed the Matrix fins not expecting much from them cos I thought to myself If im already doing so badly what difference are the Matrix gonna make anyway :hmm

At first I did a bit of surface swimming just to get the feel of them they did make some noise on the surface but were pushing me along quite nicely. However the 5# stiffness which is their stiffest model wasn't stiff at all it was very efficient but very easy to push.

I then did the same breathup I was using for the plastics and took off and this is when things went good, real good, as soon as you put these things under the surface they are incredible ive never seen anything like it normally I look up towards the end of the first 50m when Im feeling like im near the end with the plastics well I did that with these as well and to my suprise the wall was a mere 1.5m away. Holy crap these things fly as I thought to myself making the turn and pushing off I started to give them a real hardcore working and they got me to 85m real quick came up and couldn't believe how good they are.

Coupla goes later I managed to do 95m which made me quite happy considering I could only just make 60m with the plastics. I now consider it cheating to compare my pb's with my mates as they still use old worn out plastics and these things just give such an advantage

To anyone out there still deciding if your gonna go from plastic to fibreplastic DO IT you will not be dissapointed this is the best gear choice I have EVER made

cheers

 

[PaulV]

Re: Matrix fins pool test

Originally posted by ivan
Holy crap these things fly as I thought to myself making the turn and pushing off I started to give them a real hardcore working and they got me to 85m real quick came up and couldn't believe how good they are.

Andrew, that's great; I'm glad they have exceeded your expectations. Just a reminder to others - he got No. 5 stiffness PLUS several inches longer than standard. I'm interested to hear from others - what would you consider the LONGEST practical length for fins. What's the longest anyone's heard of?

Paul V.
www.20fathoms.com

 

[icarus pacific]

The longest practical , huh?

That's a loded question around this crew, Paul, but from my using the Matrix fins up here, they're about the ideal comprimise of length vs. actually being able to use them, in the kelp and all.

I can see if I was in some desert region like Florida off a boat, yeah acouple extra inches wouldn't kill me. I'm thinking that the #5's would really benefit from the added length and let the diver swing them slower and let the stiffness do the work. But man, what a load on the ankles! Brings to mind the old Farallon braces!!

 

[Murat]

one pair long matrix fin

http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?threadid=36879&perpage=15&pagenumber=4

 

[Bill]

>Brings to mind the old Farallon braces!!

Good chuckle Sven. My ankles didn't last one hour.
Aloha
Bill

 

[ivan]

hi

Nah these things are soft on the ankles :hmm but the Omer footpockets sure did cut up my ankles big time without socks :head

They long ones perform good but Im yet to try them in the ocean with a speargun and floatline etc the length could get in the way a bit who knows, all I know is that in 4months time when I try them in the ocean Im not expecting anything less than 40m

Paul for REAL DEEP diving do you guys custom make them in extra hard, like on the matrix scale maybe a 7# or 8# stiffness They'd be sweet for sure on the ascent.

cheers

 

[PaulV]

We can create stiffer ones as well. This is where we differ from regular Waterway blades. I spend a lot of effort checking the engineering on lengths vs stiffnesses to make sure users are satisfied. In some cases, our improvements have been rolled into the regular WW products.

Of course, ther is always some risk in one-off custom development. Sometimes they might not work as expected. The performance is a very subjective thing, depending on strength and kicking style. But hey, that's how the state-of-the-art is advanced.

PaulV

 

[ivan]

hi

Yeah no worries Paul I was just thinking ahead. These things are hell sweet enough for the next few years

Anyways tommorow I moving from tropical far north queensland waters down to the artic waters of Tasmania so Im not sure when I will see you guys next hopefully soon, I won't be doing too much diving , until then take care of each other

cheers

 

[mgmax]

I heard there is pretty good diving in Tassie. Good & cold too!

 

[Jon]

After trying out a bunch of different fins in the pool this weekend I decided to switch around some of my footpockets since there was such a big difference between stiffness.

Once I decided to put a new pair on my C4's I knew that I had a little glue job ahead of me. The rails on the C4's, where you mount them to your foot pockets, are made out of a carbon fiber string. This can fray and break loose form the blade- see attached picture.

Jon

 

[Jon]

I used a 2-part epoxy to glue hte rails back onto the blades. I needed to do this to both fins. Once I was done I then needed to bond the blades into my footpockets using some 3m- 5200 marine sealant- per Sven's suggestion.

This seemed to do the trick and as I take a closer look at my Sporasub PURE's I notice that they have been glued into the blades with something similar- by the company.

None of this needs to be done with the Special Fin's blades, or the BAT's, or any of the plastic blades fins that I am aware of. I know that the M-tech's that I got to try had their blades bonded in as well. This must be something specific to carbon fiber fins.

Jon

 

[Murat]

Sorry Jon if i missed it somewhere but why you are not happy with C4 rails?

BTW Bat and C4 rails seems bit similar.

 

[Jon]

Murat,

Check out this thread:

http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?threadid=37005&highlight=C4s


Jon

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Fin Quest

Jon, check your pm.

The 5200 or any other black or clear marine silicone is what everyone uses on C4's. The rational and procedure for using silicone or sealant to join the footpockets to the fins is this:
1. We naturally assume that customers ordering C4's are fairly experienced freedivers with their knowledge of equipment and the proper way to assemble the fins, otherwise we instruct the shops that sell them.
2. C4 blades either are sold as blades or complete and if they're complete they're not sent out glued yet because if they don't fit right it saves a mess, similar to what you went through, if you have to change the pockets.
3. Once the diver has finalized the right size pockets for the fins then they should glue them, this makes a perfect connection between the blades and they are no longer interchangeable but they will never come apart unless it's done wrong, even during record attempts into the abyss like Martin Stepaneks if that's your calling
4.Removing the blades is still possible but it's a headache that needs to be done very carefully with an exacto knife cutting the silicone or sealant apart from the carbon rails on the blades. Failure to do this step right can cause the rails to be disjointed as you found out because marine silicone like 3M's 5200 is some strong stuff meant for industrial grade applications...
5. I personally don't advise people to moove footopckets in and out of any blades on a regular basis whether or not they require glue because soooner or later the rubber in the pockets stretches and wears a bit loosing it's shape and ability to hug the rails of any blade. Then you end up even having to glue your plastic blades into the footpockets that never needed them

Put simply, I hate to say it but you took the school of hard knox lesson

Mark

 

[Jon]

Mark,

Just wanted to clarify one point, and that is that the rails were separating from the blades BEFORE I glued them into the foot-pockets for the first time. I first had to glue them onto the blade and then seal them into the foot-pockets. When I decided to switch them into another, final, pair of foot-pockets I just repeated the process again- glue the rails, seal the blades.

I have bought other carbon fiber fins that came pre-sealed, like my Sporasub PURE’s, right from the company. You’re just supposed to know what size fin you’re buying when you order it. If you’re fortunate enough to have a fully stocked freediving center in your neighborhood you can try it on before you buy, but for most of us on here it’s just the luck of the draw when ordering on-line.

If I do get the 30’s and put them into my OMER pockets, instead of my Sporasub’s, will they need to be sealed in too?

Jon

 

[Murat]

Hey john, will look forward to see your C4 30 test

 

[Jon]

Murat,

You're going to have to wait for a little while for those test results. Right now the only things I am testing out are hot tea and cold drugs.

Jon

 

[Murat]

wish you well recovery dude, i am not in hurry either...