Nice review! I will be able to get in the ocean in a week or so and then I will write a review on my StereoPro I got a few weeks ago... Strange enough, they have a kelpie sticker on the back, but have the same dimensions of the stereo... hahaha!
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Fin Lineup - Any Questions?
- Thread starterunirdna
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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I did not race you with my stereopro hards, I had your crappy hybrids on
. hehe. Yeah, SeaBiscuit knocked off the favorite. It happens. What do you expect, the guy is 6'3", 150 pounds - freakin' human torpedo, I say.My $.02 (now worth $.013 thanks to my government):
First the surprises. Connor's hybrid hards were NOT as stiff as my stereopro hards. And they are not shorter, although they look to be in the photos. The two fins are actually the same length, and the hybrids are about 1" wider. Both blades were used in the same [sporasub] footpockets, so it was a legit pepsi challenge.
I spent our entire 3rd day wearing the hybrids. Most of our time was spent scouting for hogfish and hunting grouper (40-50 feet). We finished off the day with some line diving in blue water.
Findings:
Hybrids are THE best surface fin I have ever used. The thrust is just plain sick. I thought I had a good surface fin with my stereos - actually, I do have a good fin. I can get around in em all day without cramping or soreness. But those hybrids are in a league of their own. You get soooo much surface-thrust for the kick that it feels like stealing. I'm going to need a pair of these blades - this I know.
At depth they were very smooth and efficient....although, here I found that my stereopros had the edge. But I attribute this to the increased stiffness - and also, my 'style'. If I used flutter kick as my main means of getting around, the hybrids would have won the race. But I skull and frog and dolphin and twist and push - basically do everything except flutter. For these kind of kicks, a stiff fin is muy importante, since you don't want your fins bendin' all over if you're going to give em just one kick, every few seconds.
And the one time that I actually DO use the good-ole scissors kick is on my way up. And since my technique is so adjusted to a stiffer fin (using a lot of bent knee - utilizing the backs of my legs more than the front), I could not get the hybrids to move me as well as my stereos. So of course, a rematch is scheduled for next year - wearing the proper fins
.@portinfer:
Crazy Jon has a pair of C4 30's and 40's that I have given a go a couple times. Additionally, I spent over a year in a pair of Dessaults before raising the bar to my stereopros (kelpies are the same fin). Sounds like I'm the perfect guy to answer your question, right? Yeah, well, here's where we learn the meaning of 'different strokes for different folks'.
I would tell you that C4 40's are too stiff for long-term surface swimming and shallow hunting. C4 30's are very good on the surface and an excellent all-around fin for all but the deepest of diving. I think that Jon would agree with me so far (although, he most likely would have use more exciting language).
But now come the differences. C4's have large rails attached to the blades which serve to stabilize and increase channelization. For Jon's style of kick this is perfect; for mine a disaster. If you do a lot of twisting and turning, your better off using a fin that does not have such large rails. This is why I use stereopros (and Dessaults). They are much more mobile, although probably not as efficient as C4's.
Finally, on to the surface kick of the dessaults and kelpies. [broken record sound] Dessaults are THE best surface swimming (and all-around fin, IMO) for under 100 bones. I think Jon would be in agreement. But........when it comes to the kelpies, we differ. Jon was NOT impressed with the surface abilitiy of kelpie mediums. I found both hard and meds to work quite well. However, when I used the blades, they were in sporasub pockets and when Jon used em they were in omer pockets.
Now I know that the forum has beat to death the omer vs. spora pockets 'thing'. But most of the back-n-forth pertained to the pocket in itself. What I would like to draw your attention to is the rails. The rails on Omers are almost twice as thick as the sporas. This makes for a much stiffer blade, and (I believe) a more difficult surface swim. Others say that the two pockets do not have any 'stiffness' differences. All I can say to them is that they are dead-wrong
. I've used both pockets extensively (many many hours in each - with the same blades), and I tell you that there is a significant difference.My final recommendation for you would be to do what I did. Buy a pair of dessaults and use em until you get greedy. Then buy the pair of blades you think would best compliment your style. All of the blades you mentioned fit nicely into spora pockets (special fins need a little help from a dremmel).
Buying the sporas (or milleniums, if you want omer pockets) now would serve to do a few things. First, you would not be out $300-$400 bucks. If you are new to freediving, there is no use spending that kind of coin upfront. Your technique need to be refined and understood before you commit yourself (and wallet) to a particular kind of fin. Dessaults are a great leaning tool. Also, it is very nice to have a broken-in, comfortable pocket when you finally do buy expensive blades. It will make the upgrade feel less foreign.
OK, that was waaaayyyy too much typing. Kudos to anyone who actually read all this yammering.
Ted
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Cheers Ted - nice info, you guys are like Imelda ....
[NOT DRAWN BY ME ! : see bottom of www.k10k.net for more great irreverance - possibly the best cartoons out there... ]
[NOT DRAWN BY ME ! : see bottom of www.k10k.net for more great irreverance - possibly the best cartoons out there... ]
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I resemble the Ted and Imelda in that I have fins coming out the wazzoo and need the space rather than another pair of fins. That said, I'm a very happy user of the Kevlar/carbon fiber Hybrids for most of my usage here and have my Matrix 40's and BAT 40's for the more open water stuff like you have over there.
The editor here, Paul Kotick has a writeup I did for the OMER BAT's but I didn't see it on the calendar he regularly fills my mailbox with, so I'll post it in a thread of it's own beginning of the week.
That was a nice black grouper by the way.
The editor here, Paul Kotick has a writeup I did for the OMER BAT's but I didn't see it on the calendar he regularly fills my mailbox with, so I'll post it in a thread of it's own beginning of the week.
That was a nice black grouper by the way.
Sven,
I see, I see. I figured that might have been your problem (and not a bad one to have at that!). The Hybrids are bad-ass. I have a pair of medium BW's I use for pool training and the shallower stuff but the Hybrids are my #1 deep spearfishing fin of choice. The Kelpies look so cool I thought I wanted a pair of hards of those fins too but I'll probably just stick with the Hybrids for now.
Thanks for the words of praise on my grouper. It was quite a catch but now I feel kinda bad for killing it.
Scott
I see, I see. I figured that might have been your problem (and not a bad one to have at that!). The Hybrids are bad-ass. I have a pair of medium BW's I use for pool training and the shallower stuff but the Hybrids are my #1 deep spearfishing fin of choice. The Kelpies look so cool I thought I wanted a pair of hards of those fins too but I'll probably just stick with the Hybrids for now.
Thanks for the words of praise on my grouper. It was quite a catch but now I feel kinda bad for killing it.
Scott
Epiphany!
Ted,
I was kind of wondering why my WW #4's were not vastly stiffer than JimGlyn's #2's. I think that you hit the bullseye -- the pocket makes a difference.
Anyone got opinions on fins for knocking about in a spring? Jeff kicked my ass easily w/ a pair of Gara HF 2k's and The111 did just fine w/ Wal-Mart fins. I offered him the WW's and/or the O.ME.R. Millenniums, but he declined. I suspect that in a spring that shedding the fins and climbing around like an aquatic, subterranean monkey is a perfectly valid option.
Ted,
I was kind of wondering why my WW #4's were not vastly stiffer than JimGlyn's #2's. I think that you hit the bullseye -- the pocket makes a difference.
Anyone got opinions on fins for knocking about in a spring? Jeff kicked my ass easily w/ a pair of Gara HF 2k's and The111 did just fine w/ Wal-Mart fins. I offered him the WW's and/or the O.ME.R. Millenniums, but he declined. I suspect that in a spring that shedding the fins and climbing around like an aquatic, subterranean monkey is a perfectly valid option.
Nice, Port . Not too far off the mark.....for Jon, that is :hmm.
My take on 'racing':
Personally, if I had the pick of any fins to race someone it would be a set of Sporasub Cruises (Mares quattro). Truth is, top speed is a lousy litmus test for the 'quality' of a fin. No doubt, I would be fastest with my Cruises, but at the expense of twice as much O2 for 20% more speed. I would not dare use them for deep diving. Races are great for braggin rights, but not practical.
[Kinda sounds like the words of a man who got his ass handed to him in a 50-foot sprint, eh?]
. Not too far off the mark.....for Jon, that is :hmm.My take on 'racing':
Personally, if I had the pick of any fins to race someone it would be a set of Sporasub Cruises (Mares quattro). Truth is, top speed is a lousy litmus test for the 'quality' of a fin. No doubt, I would be fastest with my Cruises, but at the expense of twice as much O2 for 20% more speed. I would not dare use them for deep diving. Races are great for braggin rights, but not practical.
[Kinda sounds like the words of a man who got his ass handed to him in a 50-foot sprint, eh?]
Hi all,
I get the feeling Ted's trying to get a rise out of me.
Portinfer, 10 points for a great cartoon, made my day, thanks.
Pezman, in Blue, where you can crawl down and use the current to blast back, I think you are right, fins make little difference. Anyway, how did you describe Jeff? -- "inhuman" on bottom times. Right on target, not a fair test.
In general, I found it extremely hard to compare fins, too many variables unless I did a lot of testing under lots of different conditions.
Connor
I get the feeling Ted's trying to get a rise out of me.
Portinfer, 10 points for a great cartoon, made my day, thanks.
Pezman, in Blue, where you can crawl down and use the current to blast back, I think you are right, fins make little difference. Anyway, how did you describe Jeff? -- "inhuman" on bottom times. Right on target, not a fair test.
In general, I found it extremely hard to compare fins, too many variables unless I did a lot of testing under lots of different conditions.
Connor
hi
Got a question about Omer footies, I recently bought a brand new pair of these to go with my Matrix blades. I took them to the pool and tested them and somehow had a gut feeling that these brand new footpockets feel different to my older ones on my Millenium comps. They kinda feel like they are thinner walled or something and my foot went in easier than the old ones. Also they felt a little more comfortable. Is it just me or are brand new Omer fotties different to models say 2 years ago
cheers
Got a question about Omer footies, I recently bought a brand new pair of these to go with my Matrix blades. I took them to the pool and tested them and somehow had a gut feeling that these brand new footpockets feel different to my older ones on my Millenium comps. They kinda feel like they are thinner walled or something and my foot went in easier than the old ones. Also they felt a little more comfortable. Is it just me or are brand new Omer fotties different to models say 2 years ago
cheers
Hi Ivan,
You are right. I notice the same thing. The newer ones I got are a lot softer in the heel and “toe hole”.
Cheers,
You are right. I notice the same thing. The newer ones I got are a lot softer in the heel and “toe hole”.
Cheers,
I might as well throw in my humble two cents here. Hybrid Pro Hards in OMER pockets are the best fin I've ever used and I'd buy them again. I just can' imagine a finer fin.
If I were going to buy new fins today, though, I would have to seriously consider a pair of Bat 40s. I like camoflage.
Waterway #3s in OMER pockets are tied with OMER Carbon Pros for my second favorite fin. Fiberplastic is probably the most value for the money for most people.. They are so indestructable and smooth!!
The Hybrid Pro Extra Hards are a bit stiff for my taste right now.. Kelpie and BW Hards are stiffer than the Hybrid Pro Hards and very nice, just not quite as smooth in my opinion. The Kelpie/BW hards are a close third behind the Waterways/OMER Carbon Pros in my preference but they are harder than my WW #3s so that's probably not a fair comparison. My 18-year-old son prefers the Kelpie Hard as his first choice.
In plastic fins I like the Picasso Black team for deeper and the OMER Tuna for pool work, breakwater diving and bluewater back-up. Esclapez Blacks are the easiest to get on and off but I think the pockets are not as efficient as the OMER pockets. My Esclapez blades have clouds in them from breakwater diving now, but they are still a stiff fin for surface work for me.
The bottom line is I just had to give up on all this other people's opinion stuff and try some different fins for myself.. Luckily I have kids that dive with me to help justify it. I have not yet tried the C4 or Sporasub fins and probably a few others, but I think I'm done chasing fin technology for awhile and am focusing on further skill development. That's where the REAL fun is anyway.
Mark
If I were going to buy new fins today, though, I would have to seriously consider a pair of Bat 40s. I like camoflage.
Waterway #3s in OMER pockets are tied with OMER Carbon Pros for my second favorite fin. Fiberplastic is probably the most value for the money for most people.. They are so indestructable and smooth!!
The Hybrid Pro Extra Hards are a bit stiff for my taste right now.. Kelpie and BW Hards are stiffer than the Hybrid Pro Hards and very nice, just not quite as smooth in my opinion. The Kelpie/BW hards are a close third behind the Waterways/OMER Carbon Pros in my preference but they are harder than my WW #3s so that's probably not a fair comparison. My 18-year-old son prefers the Kelpie Hard as his first choice.
In plastic fins I like the Picasso Black team for deeper and the OMER Tuna for pool work, breakwater diving and bluewater back-up. Esclapez Blacks are the easiest to get on and off but I think the pockets are not as efficient as the OMER pockets. My Esclapez blades have clouds in them from breakwater diving now, but they are still a stiff fin for surface work for me.
The bottom line is I just had to give up on all this other people's opinion stuff and try some different fins for myself.. Luckily I have kids that dive with me to help justify it. I have not yet tried the C4 or Sporasub fins and probably a few others, but I think I'm done chasing fin technology for awhile and am focusing on further skill development. That's where the REAL fun is anyway.
Mark
Hey, I found some new fins at a turkish skindiving website and also saw their ads on some mags.
Do you know about the xx-one fins? especially the art-pro series? apperantly they have both composite fin production and carbon production in mimetic colors.
so you know about them?
Do you know about the xx-one fins? especially the art-pro series? apperantly they have both composite fin production and carbon production in mimetic colors.
so you know about them?