Live from Egypt 2006

Will said:

There seems to be some kind of jinx with this CWNF record: ciguatera and egyptian generals for me (but at least I got a dive!) and now a saboteur video operator for Will Wimram...

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I heard Martin did some sort of VOODOO ritual before his 80m record, making a deal with the devil to hold this record forever! Seems to be working so far!

Too bad for William Trubridge and William Winram! Maybe Martin specifically said in his spell that 'no William shall break this record...'

It reminds me of the 83m jinx. Until Alexey Molchanov dived 83m in Egypt just last week, no one had ever successfully pulled of an 83m constant weight dive. There had been at least five separate attempts at 83m, all failed (including Martin himself). After having personally failed two attempts at 83m and watching Ryuzo fail an 83m attempt, I told Ryuzo about the 83m jinx. He then proceeded to announce 84m which he made, and then 82m which he also made! William Winram smartly avoided the 83m jinx by trying to break the Canadian record by 2m with 84m, and he was rewarded and made it.

but as word of truth everyone has to be honest with himself
and the others
we ve to admit that this competetion was really very successfully and organization was great
this is the first aida championship to be filmed live from under the water
\this is the first aida to be televised live for 2 channels and rec for 8 channels and many of you knewed that reuters was filming there
and the athletes themselves felt like stars being filmed even under the water for 100 meters or more which hasnt happen before in the history of aida competetions .....
then the assholes who did nothing but pointing with finger of blame to yehia
did nothing like this before and many of them were wishing to take the competetion to organize it themselves or let their girl friend organize it and we all know the story
this is also the first competetion as the athletes themselves say that the ceremoney that was done in the begining and the end was never done before
also the certificates for athletes that will be written in gold and sent to them
ve never been made before
NO BLACKOUTS was caused by the organizer fault (medical point of view)
and on the other hand the delay and also the cancel of the trial on the day after the competetion i saw it and i was there the judge cancel because the rope has 3 meters cut from the begining and simply the judges could have made the trial starting with the robe from 10 metres it is the same especially if u know that the line has 40 meteres longer than the number the athlete was intending to go for .so why the judges esp grante was doing like this
also i saw myself dirty RACISM toward the ariterian team when the judge grant was intending to disqualify before the official top because the team was in the water not the warm line before there warming could ve been started but the rest of judges brotest him as they said this will look very fool from him ....
maaaaaaaaany things i could tell you i saw by myself that the championship was really very good and never done like this before and many hidden hands tried to ruin this especially the ones who tried to organize it or let their girlfriends organize of course u understand me
everyone who has been to previous AIDA told us this was the first time also to ve great hotel like this one FORT ARABESQUE and how they were suffering in the previous competetions from the bad hotels and they couldnt train or sleep or eat ...
also whereelse in the world u can find sunny days in december ???
or u can find 200 mteres depth and more just next to the beach where u can go to your room quickly after the dive or we can clear any emergency as far as 1 minute ...???
everything was choosen perfectly everything was organised like was not done ever before as everyone says
and i want to say to those idiots who only blame ...
THIS WAS THE BEST AIDA EVER
and if not try to answer the questions above
and also look what ve they done or anyone in the world before has done what has been done succesfully here in hurghada ...
dont blame like fools give the people their rights especialy who made the effort to help them
i m not defending yehia or attacking them i only say what i saw by myself and what everyone feels here
THANKS YEHIA AGAIN FOR THIS GREAT EVENT
dr-hesham

So you are calling Grant a racist, because he is following rules???

Are you sure that this is the right forum for accusations like that?

Peter P

drhesham1 said:

but as word of truth everyone has to be honest with himself and the others we ve to admit that this competetion was really very successfully and organization was great

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Would be nice to hear some positive feedback about the competition if we could believe in the honesty of your comments. Unfortunately all who commented till now had just the opposite opinion - that includes not only competitors, but also those who actually had to organize the event because the real organizers failed.

drhesham1 said:

then the assholes who did nothing but pointing with finger of blame to yehia

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I dare that you control your vocabulary! :rcard We are not used to see this kind of speech here on DB, and prefer civilized and polite speaking. Besides it, the ones who criticized did organize such competitions (i.e. the WC in Vancouver), and saw many of them. You forgot that it was the AIDA representatives, judges, and competitors who complained.

drhesham1 said:

NO BLACKOUTS was caused by the organizer fault (medical point of view)

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Personally, I know about at least two blackouts caused by an error of the organizers, and I believe there were more than that. The first one was a girl blacking out during the training, because the base plate was 20 meters deeper than it ought to be. There were many more such cases, but fortunately not all finished by blackout. The second one was a guy blacking out during the competition because the organizer used tags not heavy enough, so that they were not at the bottom plate and tangled into his lanyard and considerably slowed down his ascent.

drhesham1 said:

... i saw myself dirty RACISM toward the ariterian team when the judge grant was intending to disqualify before the official top because the team was in the water not the warm line before there warming could ve been started but the rest of judges brotest him as they said this will look very fool from him ....

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I think you need to read the rules. Also calling someone racist for following rules is a grave slander, and definitely not a way to behave on a public forum. This is the second good reason to ban you from DB, and I would not be surprised if the moderator does it.

Your comments are quite surprising, especially because in another thread you seemed to be willing to offer your services. I am afraid that after this your post, there will be very few people who would like to cooperate with such a rude person.

drhesham1 said:

and i want to say to those idiots who only blame ...
THIS WAS THE BEST AIDA EVER and if not try to answer the questions above
and also look what ve they done or anyone in the world before has don

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And there we have your third violation of DB rules. Offensive speech is not welcome here, doc! If everyone in the organizing team at the WC was only half as rude and arrogant as you, then I am not surpised there were so many complaints.

BTW, how many AIDA WC did you see, that you feel being competent for telling that this one was the best?

Dr Hesham,
Please let us know how many AIDA World Championship you have been present at.
According to your text here it seems that you know everything about how a freediving competition should be organized.

/B

Is AIDA planning on reviewing the way they monitor the planning of future world championships? If not, is there anything else they will review as a result of the way this last Championship was organised / run??

If Bill or another spokesperson from AIDA can comment, I would be interested. This isn't a rhetorical question, it's a genuine enquiry.

All the participants in this WC know what happened and I'm pretty sure we all agree, even the organizers, that some things could have run smoother. But we all came together to compete and compete we did. There were many PB's and NR's broken and even a couple of WR's. Organizers, Judges and Athletes all came together to make this happen, we can say it was a group effort. :friday

We now learn from the past and move forward to the future and stop laying blame on one another because it does not help.

I hope in future competitions if things go awry we can all work together as we did in Egypt to have a successful outcome.

Thanks to all involved in the WC 2006!

DSV

Cheers to that!

I think it's in human nature to have a bit of a whinge, and I love having a go most of the time.

Though now, I think i'd just like to concentrate on remembering all the good things that came out of the comp, which for me was meeting and hanging out with a sensational bunch of people and learning and sharing experiences with them. Oh and some amazing diving :inlove

My wife Pen always comments on what a wonderful bunch of people freedivers generally are, compared to the rest of the masses - since she's not one herself she's got a good impartial viewpoint.

Deeper Blue members were well represented, I would have met at least 20. It's great to finally put faces to people i've chatted with on and off for a couple of years.

Cheerio,
Ben

"THIS WAS THE BEST AIDA EVER"
rofl

Dear Dr. Hesham,

I wasn't there, but ALL the people I know, said that from an organizational point of view, this competition was a JOKE. And these people know A LOT about freediving and competition organizing.

Give me one GOOD reason to believe YOU instead of THEM.

PS: All freedivers that I know, don't care much about "feeling like stars thanks to the TV that was there". They would rather have a great competition.

I know of at least two BOs caused by the organiser - Derrick Arripol of Brasil and Tim Money of the UK both BOd on the first day after struggling to ascend when their lanyards got tangled up in the stupidly light carabiners chosen by the organiser to carry the tags to the bottom.

The AIDA Board are getting all the info together and of course will discuss new methods of checking the organisation of such events. I have suggested, as Kars posted above, that any organiser hosting a Worlds event should have previously successfully run a smaller event at the same facilities. In my mind, that would be a good check - and the judges going to the Worlds could talk to the Judges of the smaller event to see how it went.

This will all get done slowly, after all the info is in, but I am sure some changes will be made. It's a shame that anything has to be done at all but I guess as AIDA awards competitions to organisers that it has not worked with before and does not know so well, such checks become more and more necessary.

Sam

You got to admit that a depth competition televised live with cameras at depth is pertty damn cool. I just wish we had had a chance to watch it, man that would've been neat.

Not so sure about the fancy hotel and gold certificates. Sure, that's fun, but not excatly first priority stuff...?

Well the event is over, champions were found, everyone is safe - so I think less stone casting and more constructive "how do we improve for the next one" discussions are in place.

Let us remember that Yehia actually made the effort. Its not like AIDA has a list to chose from. He took the challenge, he had high visions and failed to some extent in some parts.

I also feel that the Aida international board let this happen to an extent. Was not the president flown down to Egypt some weeks in advance and several times Bill exclaimed - "this will be the best ever".

And all the time signs could be seen. A dead website, full of exagerations. Reports that media did not get any straight answers out of the organzation. judges not getting there flights paid (?), comp dates moved without ANY explanation, no booked hotel until the last minute (?)

Having had a competition in the same location with the same crew is a VERY good demand on a WC organizer. I would also suggest that is compulsory to reserve half a doussin positions in the WC crew for people from other nations with organizer skills - this will make the crew cosmopolitan and knowledge and skills will be spread.

Sebastian
Who had a very good time in Hurghada despite the chaos.

another interesting question again:

on bed in a double room in "fort arabesque" in this time (off-saison) costs never more than 15euro. you can book an extension-week for this hotel in many travel offices for less than 120euro (all inclusive board).
120euro:7 nights=17euro (all inclusive board);
all inclusive 17euro rounded up to half board~15euro;
11 nights x15euro= 165euro);
(they are the ultimate-consumer prices. for a travel organizer costs the night importantly less than 10euro per bed per night;-)

136 starters + 41 teams rounded up to 30 teamchefs + 20 reservestarters + 20 selfpaying volunteers* + media + rounded to 200 guests.

200x 370* euro = 74.000 euro
200x 165 euro = 33.000 euro
= 41.000 euro???

*the 370euro for the accommodation has to pay every volunteer himself and was the inofficial reason for the 495euro start fee.

~ 41.000euro = 53.700$ = 27.500gbp = 307.000le (egyptisch pounds). this is a lot of money in egypt... (corresponds in approximately 150.000 euro)

or do I err here?

nooo these rates r not trues at all
i work in this hotel and i tell you that rates are much more than was said
if u want the sure data visit the site of the hotel
thanks
dr-hesham

answering the quotes
of some one is not really my interest
but the two blackouts that were said here didnt happen because of what u said and i took the history myself from the athletes
and the big prove is that the blackedout again .!!!
..without the things u say it did the blackouts and we all know that
and about the rest i can answer u on mail because some facts may hurt someone and also ill give you the evidence
about previous aidas ive seen 2 of them but was not present
and also i met as many people who dont write here saying the same about the organization

drhesham1 said:

but the two blackouts that were said here didnt happen because of what u said and i took the history myself from the athletes
and the big prove is that the blackedout again .!!!

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That's not really a proof to me, but rather the consequence, but never mind. What do you tell about the accident of the girl who blacked out in training because the base plate was 20 meters deeper than it ought to be? Did you record it too? Who would you blame here, if not the organizer? Was it also fault of the girl because she did not watch how deep she was?

I know that at least the British guy was attempting a depth that was well within a comfortable dive for him. He dragged the clip all the way to the top jammed in his lanyard carabiner which was seriously hard work. One reason he blacked on his final attempt was probably because due to organisational errors (broken plate on the first day, dodgy carabiners on the second) this was the third night of worried sleep and third time he had to psyche himself up, get out to the barge, get on the line..... not something I envy!

I checked the site of aida egypt for results and at the link for national/world records I noticed that they also list Herbert's 9:04 static. This happened at an event after the competition and not at the competition...this is quite clear and quite important.
One other minor note is that a new Greek NR (F) in Constant weight was done by Natassa Fraggouli with 47m.

Cheers Stavros

jome said:

Well the event is over, champions were found, everyone is safe - so I think less stone casting and more constructive "how do we improve for the next one" discussions are in place.

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This got the little bureaucrat in me thinking: Would it be possible for AIDA to design some checklists / information templates etc. that the AIDA-ratified competitions would need to fill in say 2 months before a competition, publish them over web and send copies of necessary documents (e.g. swimming pool reservation receipts) to AIDA?
This listed information could include such things as pool characteristics (location, length, depth and temperature) and communication (www, deadlines for TOP announcements etc.). The required information could take into account the magnitude of the competition by requiring international competitions to submit more information, like underwater camera footage from pool profile or photographs of the bottom plate, tags and carabines.
Some information could be left blank or the inputs would be preliminary, but at least it would give AIDA and possible participants the possibility to estimate how well the event is coming together before pouring hundreds of euros in participation-related costs.

I have never myself arranged competitions, so I don't know all the things that need to be taken into account to pull such events off. So, If someone of you has such experience, could you comment whether this is kind of checklist is possible to execute, and would it be more likely to increase or decrease the workload related to organizing competitions.

-EeroS

To my knowledge, an extensive comp check list was defined several years ago by Claude Chapuis from France, I'm currently going through my files to find it. Also, I think Kirk and Tom from Canada have extensive paper work from the 2004 champs that could be of good use.

BTW, it's all nice with having a long check list that the organizer must adhere to. An entire other issue is how to handle if the organizer tells both half and full falsehoods to give the impression that everything is ready, even if it's not and can't possibly be.

I'm still trying to be as fair to the organizer as possible, and to understand his reasoning and the nature of the shortcomings and mishaps, but with the knowledge I have now with some inadvertable ethical issues, I find it harder and harder to defend him. I'm not forgetting the parts he DID scrape together. I'm not forgetting the hard work he DID conduct on site all the way to the end. I can forgive him for losing the overview at times and for not realising the huge logistic issue in time, and I'm not forgetting that he DID step aside to allow the various experienced people do their thing, so the event was saved. Also, I don't look down on him for his desire to get the event onto TV and make a big pile of cash from that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with seeking a profitable TV deal, but one must pair this with adequate ethics in the process, while also accepting a protection of the integrity of the particular game one is organizing. This gentleman failed in many of these issues time and time again.

As a paradox, I kinda hope he'll make a huge profit from this year. This would mean that for coming years, others in Egypt who CAN organize huge events while accepting that it can't all be fun and glory, will find an insentive to outbid this year's organizer. Personally, I'd love to come back to ol' Misr year after year, back to the World's best diving waters, but not in the hands of organizers like these. Sadly, I must state that right now this gentleman is unworthy not only to freediving and the Olympic idea, but also to his country and the grand name of his family (which even I had heard of before).


'course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.


Chris Engelbrecht, comp judge