OK, I think that we are talking about the same thing then but may differ on the order of which band is loaded first. The order may not be as important as what band goes on what tab/notch.
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Open or closed muzzle
- Thread starterBellboy7
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Thread Status: Hello
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OK, I think that we are talking about the same thing then but may differ on the order of which band is loaded first. The order may not be as important as what band goes on what tab/notch.
Just catching up. Yes, Diving Nomad, that was the conclusion I came to too. Useful discussion for me as I hope to try twin bands for the first time this year (Apnea ST-60 with 2x14mm).
I think the order does matter for the reasons I’ve mentioned before. If a band is loaded to the rear fin first, then the fins in front will be hard to get to. I don’t use shafts with notches but I would think it would be just about impossible to get a wishbone down through the rubber if the previously loaded band.
What you are saying is very confusing because you aren't stating what band or tab/notch is to understand exactly what you mean. Here are the pics below, tell me please where band 1 to what tab and which is loaded first, band 1, 2 or 3?
This getting complicated, partly because of your very unusual muzzle. So let me show photos of my muzzles. The one closest to your muzzle is this Wong muzzle with three holes. We'll stick with your numbering. The rear band is number 3, the middle one is number 2, and the forward one is number one. Band 3 would go to tab A first, then band 2 to tab B, then band 1 to tab C.
I'm going to do separate replies for other muzzles, so please wait before replying.
I'm going to do separate replies for other muzzles, so please wait before replying.
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Now for two other muzzles that are essentially open slots so that bands can move around. If I start with any one of the two or three bands, it moves to the back of the slot and becomes band 3 and will go to tab A first. The second one I grab will be band 2 and go to tab B, etc.
I think the only reason the loading order you describe works is because of the huge distance between loading tabs. I have never seen a shaft like that and can't understand why the manufacturer would do that. Most want to maximize power from a given gun length by having as much band stretch as possible. Tab A is so far forward that its giving up around 25% of possible band stretch. But anyway, I can see how they get away with the recommended loading order. The tabs are so far apart that it doesn't matter. The previously loaded band is not going to get in the way of another band getting onto its tab. But even though it works ,I would get a different gun or a different shaft, but a different shaft would require different bands.
I think the only reason the loading order you describe works is because of the huge distance between loading tabs. I have never seen a shaft like that and can't understand why the manufacturer would do that. Most want to maximize power from a given gun length by having as much band stretch as possible. Tab A is so far forward that its giving up around 25% of possible band stretch. But anyway, I can see how they get away with the recommended loading order. The tabs are so far apart that it doesn't matter. The previously loaded band is not going to get in the way of another band getting onto its tab. But even though it works ,I would get a different gun or a different shaft, but a different shaft would require different bands.
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I hope I didn't get band numbers and tab letters screwed up. I had to print it out for reference. Don't let those slip tips confuse the issue.
In case the numbering and lettering of bands and tabs drives anyone nuts as it does me, I think the quote from Sharky says it best. That is as clear as it can get.
"I also test a lot of guns & also have been using big multi rubber guns for decades.
I load the first rubber on the fin closest to the muzzle & then work my way back like that. The last rubber goes on the fin closest to the trigger mech. Never had a problem with this, never heard of a problem before, can not see a problem, so I certainly won’t be changing."
"I also test a lot of guns & also have been using big multi rubber guns for decades.
I load the first rubber on the fin closest to the muzzle & then work my way back like that. The last rubber goes on the fin closest to the trigger mech. Never had a problem with this, never heard of a problem before, can not see a problem, so I certainly won’t be changing."
Band 1 goes through band 2 and on to notch A,
Then Band 2,then goes on to notch B, ROB ALLEN, such beautiful guns, thats a carbon 110, it dosent make sence ur over stretching ur front rubbers 1 which is the shortest one all the way to the back notch by trigger mech, so then ur longer rubbers will be getting shorter as u put them on notches closest to the muzzle,, UNDERPOWERING ur gun,
Then Band 2,then goes on to notch B, ROB ALLEN, such beautiful guns, thats a carbon 110, it dosent make sence ur over stretching ur front rubbers 1 which is the shortest one all the way to the back notch by trigger mech, so then ur longer rubbers will be getting shorter as u put them on notches closest to the muzzle,, UNDERPOWERING ur gun,
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It makes sense for his gun only because the runners are cut that way. Of course you wouldn’t want to put the short one on the rear tab and vise versa but the shaft doesn’t have to be that way. Here is a photo of more typical tab spacing in one of my guns. I hope that clarifies why I saying that you loaded a band on the rear tab first, that band would keep you from getting a wishbone on the tab in front of it. His gun is a very special case with the tabs so far apart but I’d hate to think that beginners reading the thread were misled. Read what Sharky said. Watch that video I posted. That’s the way people Vick guns.
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It makes sense for his gun only because the runners are cut that way. Of course you wouldn’t want to put the short one on the rear tab and vice versa but the shaft doesn’t have to be that way. Here is a photo of more typical tab spacing in one of my guns. I hope that clarifies why I saying that you loaded a band on the rear tab first, that band would keep you from getting a wishbone on the tab in front of it. His gun is a very special case with the tabs so far apart but I’d hate to think that beginners reading the thread were misled. Read what Sharky said. Watch that video I posted. That’s the way people load guns.
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Yea i see what ur saying my notches on the RA guns are spaced apart too, and I've only ever used 2 band guns,,, im sure diff strokes for diff guns,,there's lots of videos on utube for diff gun loading,, i RECCOMEND Newbys try find one to watch with the gun theyve got i know I watched a few,,,, Important thing is not to cross bands,, MAKE SURE THERE RUNNING PARRALELLE,, never load out of the water, and never glue safty,, USE IT, its there for a reason,, Practice gun saftey at all times
I included pictures of a 3-band gun just to be comprehensive, the same concept applies to 2 band guns too, just remove band 3 from the discussion. Band 1 to the second tab/notch from mechanism (load band 1 goes through/under band 2 when loading) and Band 2 to the first tab/notch from mechanism. You would load band 1 first and then band 2 (this is option but the most important part is what band goes to what tab/notch).
Please note that this information I received from the various gun mfg.'s I have contacted. Their photos and videos reinforce this concept also as you can see from the pictures. The pictures I have uploaded above aren't my pics but they are copied from the mfg's catalog or website, not mine
Please note that this information I received from the various gun mfg.'s I have contacted. Their photos and videos reinforce this concept also as you can see from the pictures. The pictures I have uploaded above aren't my pics but they are copied from the mfg's catalog or website, not mine
Thats exactly what i saidI included pictures of a 3-band gun just to be comprehensive, the same concept applies to 2 band guns too, just remove band 3 from the discussion. Band 1 to the second tab/notch from mechanism (load band 1 goes through/under band 2 when loading) and Band 2 to the first tab/notch from mechanism. You would load band 1 first and then band 2 (this is option but the most important part is what band goes to what tab/notch).
Please note that this information I received from the various gun mfg.'s I have contacted. Their photos and videos reinforce this concept also as you can see from the pictures. The pictures I have uploaded above aren't my pics but they are copied from the mfg's catalog or website, not mine
Im glad we got to the bottom of that then lol,,, IM HANGING FOR A DIVE, dam lockdown,, mayb NZ Wednesday, were allowed out to the beach WOOHOOO, HAHAHAHAAA
An agreement reached in a dive forum on the internet, a day that will be recorded in history
I was supposed to go diving today but got busy with stuff. The sea is supposed to be flat tomorrow so I'll try diving tomorrow in a new location to explore and document the underwater scene (marine life and topography). We have had very bad water conditions for several weeks now and haven't had the chance to dive for a couple of months now.
I'm glad you too came to an agreement, but that doesn't mean you're right. For instance Sharkey is too smart to keep beating his head against the wall, but he showed you a wall of guns. He didn't write to the manufacturer. He actually loads those guns.
Which reminds me Nomad- have you actually loaded guns, or do you just write to manufacturers trying to find out how to do it?
But anyway, before I bow out I'm going to show you a photo of why I don't load to the last tab first. It scares the hell out of me to load a gun in my garage, but did it because pictures are supposed to be worth a thousand words. The band is loaded on the last fin. It would be possible but difficult to get a wishbone on the front fin. Now imagine there is a third fin in front of that second one. Do you think you could get a wishbone on it? Maybe you could, but I don't want to struggle while pulling a band as far as my strength allows. I cut my bands as short as I can and still load them. I'm not holding than at full stretch and messing around trying to get them onto fins. I'm making one smooth pull that barely gets to the fin. If it's easy I cut them shorter. And now Imagine that three are slots instead of fins. Do you think you could get a wishbone down into those slots?
For instance Sharkey is too smart to keep beating his head against the wall, but he showed you a wall of guns. He didn't write to the manufacturer. He actually loads those guns.Which reminds me Nomad- have you actually loaded guns, or do you just write to manufacturers trying to find out how to do it?
But anyway, before I bow out I'm going to show you a photo of why I don't load to the last tab first. It scares the hell out of me to load a gun in my garage, but did it because pictures are supposed to be worth a thousand words. The band is loaded on the last fin. It would be possible but difficult to get a wishbone on the front fin. Now imagine there is a third fin in front of that second one. Do you think you could get a wishbone on it? Maybe you could, but I don't want to struggle while pulling a band as far as my strength allows. I cut my bands as short as I can and still load them. I'm not holding than at full stretch and messing around trying to get them onto fins. I'm making one smooth pull that barely gets to the fin. If it's easy I cut them shorter. And now Imagine that three are slots instead of fins. Do you think you could get a wishbone down into those slots?
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