Open or closed muzzle

[DivingNomad]

Which reminds me Nomad- have you actually loaded guns, or do you just write to manufacturers trying to find out how to do it?

No, I just watch you and laugh.

I don't pretend to know everything like what some others do. When I am not so sure of something, I reach out to the experts and ask them and try to go with what they suggest concerning the use of the equipment THEY designed and manufactured themselves.

If you don't agree with what others have to say, that is certainly your choice but you don't have to be condescending, just be happy it is only spearfishing.

But anyway, before I bow out I'm going to show you a photo of why I don't load to the last tab first. It scares the hell out of me to load a gun in my garage, but did it because pictures are supposed to be worth a thousand words. The band is loaded on the list fin. It would be possible but difficult to get a wishbone on the front fin. Now imagine there is a third fin in front of that second one. Do you think you could get a wishbone on it? Maybe you could, but I don't want to struggle while pulling a band as far as my strength allows. I cut my bands as short as I can and still load them. I'm not holding than at full stretch and messing around trying to get them onto fins. I'm making one smooth pull that barely gets to the fin. If it's easy I cut them shorter. And now Imagine that three are slots instead of fins. Do you think you could get a wishbone down into those slots?

I still don't get you, it is obvious to me that it will be difficult to load a second band on the second tab from the mechs side as it appears in the picture you present here. I'd think that loading onto the second tab first will be easier to load than loading the band on the first tab first, i.e., loading band 1 into tab B and then loading band 2 onto tab/notch C (the one closest to the mech.). BUT, you are free to do whatever you feel is appropriate to your situation and you are comfortable with. For the OP, he can try loading the bands in different combinations and figure out what works for him.

Happy and safe spearing!!

 

[Andrew the fish]

...

Looking at your picture posted a couple pages back. Bill, how do you like articulated wishbone in this setup? I was reading a lot of negativity about articulated wishbones, but your picture shows how it keeps bands separate at trigger end of the shaft. Also, if I convert all my two bands (LoL) to articulated wishbone, shouldn't it clear the sight picture for more accurate aiming? Right now bands are crowded so that I can't see the shaft.

Also, so far I have been making my bands with square cut ends, but I can see that yours are all cut to a cone ends. Does it make noticeable difference? I guess it should, but how much difference?

Thank you beforehand.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Hi Andrew. I'm new to articulated wishbones. I got the idea from one of Spearq8's great videos in which he was testing the Abellan Albacore 130 gun, so I thought I'd try it. I guess the danger is that one might break while you were gripping the gun at the middle. It could do serious damage to your hand.

I have two Abellans that use two bands and I can see down the shaft just fine. In fact with that Ulusub in my photo, I can see down the shaft with just the first two bands loaded. Its only when I load the third band that it stacks up, which is why I tried the articulated wishbone. I'm not sure why you woudn't be able to see down the shaft with two brands, but maybe the tapered bands do help a bit. I've gone back and forth between tapered and untapered over the years, depending on how lazy I am, but I think the tapered do open up the sight line. Maybe that would be all you need on your two band guns.

Notice that the taper on the first two bands looks pretty ragged. That is because I cut it with shears after tying the band. The band with the articulated wishbone looks smoother because I did it the right way- insert a nail in the band for stiffness and hold it against the wheel of a bench grinder at an angle until sparks fly off the head of the nail.

If you are anal like me, you need to make allowances for the taper when calculating cut rubber length. After I calculate the length from constrictor knot to constrictor knot I add 1 inch for untapered and 1.5 inches for tapered. But that is probably silly. A small difference in wishbone length could make that irrelevant.

If you wanted to use two articulated wishbones on your two band gun, they do make them in different widths but I would think just one would suffice.

I'll show another wishbone alternative that I've used on a Wong. Masahiro Mori in Los Angeles makes they very thick stainless wire wishbones. I can't imagine that they would ever break. But the balls on the end are very thick. They work great in larger ID rubber, but they are just too big to get into the small ID rubber I'm using now. I might be able to force them in, but I think the rubber would be so stretched that it wouldn't last long.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

No, I just watch you and laugh.

I don't pretend to know everything like what some others do. When I am not so sure of something, I reach out to the experts and ask them and try to go with what they suggest concerning the use of the equipment THEY designed and manufactured themselves.

If you don't agree with what others have to say, that is certainly your choice but you don't have to be condescending, just be happy it is only spearfishing.

Sorry I upset you but if you don't want advice, why ask? I'm pretty sure that not a single person agreed with your manufacturer's method of loading a gun but you insisted on telling us we were all wrong. Sharkey did it in very clear language. You insisted on the 1 and A stuff, so I tried to go with that. I finally showed a photo and you said you still didn't get it. I couldn't understand why you said you didn't get it. So if you're frustrated then you aren't the only one. I've been loading guns since the early 1950s starting with a little Champion Arbalete. Sharkey has been loading them damn near as long and has a raft of guns that he loads. You may think we just don't know better, but every single young guy on my boat loads the same way I do. Just maybe there is some collective wisdom here.

Yes, your method works on that gun you used as an example, but that's only because of the absurd distance between tabs. I've never see a gun like that.

If you don't want to hear answers to questions, don't ask.

 

[Andrew the fish]

Bill thank you for very informative reply. I think you are right, tapered ends should clear up the sight quite a bit. Neat trick with nail and a grinder, I am going to re-do all rubbers since now I know how it is done. And I bought a set of stainless wishbones one big one small. I have not one, but two new guns coming. The only question, I am still foggy, which rubber goes on first.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

The only question, I am still foggy, which rubber goes on first.

 

[DivingNomad]

Sorry I upset you but if you don't want advice, why ask?

I didn't ask you for advice at all.

I'm pretty sure that not a single person agreed with your manufacturer's method of loading a gun but you insisted on telling us we were all wrong. Sharkey did it in very clear language. You insisted on the 1 and A stuff, so I tried to go with that. I finally showed a photo and you said you still didn't get it. I couldn't understand why you said you didn't get it. So if you're frustrated then you aren't the only one. I've been loading guns since the early 1950s starting with a little Champion Arbalete.

I am saying that loading the tab closest to the mech. first makes it almost impossible to load the tab(s) that are closer to the muzzle.

If you don't want to hear answers to questions, don't ask.

I never asked you, you are confusing me with the OP who started this thread, it wasn't me.

This is what I said:

1. You load the furthest band from the muzzle to the tab furthest from the mech FIRST

2. You load the second band to the tab in the middle if you have three band and three tab. If only two, you load the band closest to the muzzle to the first tab closest to the mech.

 

[DivingNomad]

@
Bill McIntyre

Perhaps this is a better picture for you:

 

[DivingNomad]

Here is a video from Rob Allen illustrating what I meant for a two-band gun very clearly:

 

[subversive]

Here is a video from Rob Allen illustrating what I meant for a two-band gun very clearly:

..just reading through this whole thread. you explain accurate how those guns with muzzles, that have a single hole for each band to pass
(like a rob allen gun) should be loaded. either there are two or three separate band-holes on the muzzle.
and that is what probably caused some missunderstanding from some members like bill and sharkey.
they are obviously using guns that having one single slot for all the bands to pass through. like a classic riffe gun for example.
those guns dont require the explained loading-technique.
fun-fact : i keep loading my rob allen guns "wrong" at all times. just because i am accustomed doing it that way,
and never had a problem....

 

[Bill McIntyre]

..just reading through this whole thread. you explain accurate how those guns with muzzles, that have a single hole for each band to pass
(like a rob allen gun) should be loaded. either there are two or three separate band-holes on the muzzle.
and that is what probably caused some missunderstanding from some members like bill and sharkey.
they are obviously using guns that having one single slot for all the bands to pass through. like a classic riffe gun for example.
those guns dont require the explained loading-technique.
fun-fact : i keep loading my rob allen guns "wrong" at all times. just because i am accustomed doing it that way,
and never had a problem....

This again?

Just for the record, the Wong guns I've used for years have a separate hole for each band, but I still load them the wrong way, and so does everyone I know.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I should add that Daryl Wong must load his guns the wrong way too. The band in the rear hole is the shortest and goes on the front shark fin of the shaft. The band in the middle hole is a bit longer and goes on the middle shark fin. The band in the front hole is the longest because it goes on the rear shark fin.

That's the way he sends the bands on a new gun. But what the hell does he know?

 

[subversive]

This again?

Just for the record, the Wong guns I've used for years have a separate hole for each band, but I still load them the wrong way, and so does everyone I know.

..so you only know people that refuse to do the right thing ?

..just like me..
as clearly seen on this screenshot of the wahoo i met 2days ago..but once i have the fish in my hands, it did not feel i did it the wrong way....