• Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

Open or closed muzzle

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Bellboy, you've been begging for bottom times, so I'm going to give you some.

Yesterday was the first time I've been diving since November. I don't generally dive in the winter here since the game fish that interest me are absent, and this year we've had a lot of storms and record rainfall that have kept the visibility poor much later than usual. Also, this is the first time I've been diving since I turned 80, so I was worried about how my body would perform. My first dive was 41 seconds, and I was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't worse. My best dives were only 53 seconds, but that was roughly in line with where I left off last season. I'll be delighted if I can hit one minute with a bit more practice. I was pretty cold since temp was 57 degrees F and I should have worn my 7 mm suit instead of my 5mm.

So there you have some numbers. Not very impressive, are they? My dive buddy's longest dive was 1min 18 seconds, but he's only 40. Should I quit since my times are so short? I'm not going to. I never felt the least bit of urgency when I hit the surface since no fish is that important to me. With a little luck I'll get fish with those times. I won't get as many as my buddy will, but this isn't a competition. I'm in it for fun.

About 68 years ago when I started no one knew a thing about blackout. When I surfaced I often was dizzy and seeing stars. I have no idea what my times were since we didn't had dive watches, but I feel lucky that I lived through it. But you have the advantage of all the knowledge that people are offering. I've never done a table in my life. I never hold my breath when I'm not underwater. But on the other hand I'm still alive and enjoying diving and my grandchildren. A lot of people who were "better" divers than I am are dead, including one of my best dive buddies. The hardest thing Ive ever done was call his wife from Mexico and tell her that she was a single mother of four kids. The heaviest carry on luggage I've ever carried was the box with his ashes after I got him cremated in La Paz. Don't put your dive buddies and parents through something like that.

I didn't get any fish yesterday but the visibility was only about 8 feet. With better conditions I think my times will let me get a few fish this year. But I'm not going to dive deeper or longer than is comfortable.
 
Last edited:
Wow. Bill that has got to be the post of the year and it's only March. It will take a while to fully absorb the implications of that story. :(

The figure that stuck in my mind is that you are 80!!! And still spearing. I didn't know it was possible. Bill, you were already my hero but doubly so now! An inspiration to us all. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andrew the fish
Wow bill 80, YOUR THE MAN, thats awesome mate, so proud right now, AND YES YOUR TOTALLY RIGHT, I HAVE A 21YO SON A 18YO DAUGHTER AND MY 4 YO BABY GIRL, SO WE NEED TO BE AROUND FOR OUR KIDS AND GRANDKIDS, u touched my heart with that point, THANKS FOR HITTING IT HOME,,, ENJOY THE DIVE, FISH IS A BONUS,, GOT IT, CHEERS,
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X
Thanks Mr X. I'm not doing it very well, but for now at least I'm still doing it.

I'm not smart enough to learn bridge and my bad back won't permit golf. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X
Thanks mr x, so roughly how long do u hold ur breath and how deep do u dive??
Hi BellBoy, per my original answer, I don't own a dive computer so don't really know. I usually have my watch on but it is under my wetsuit and/or gloves - so not readily visible and difficult for me to read without glasses. I wear it only because I don't need to remove it. Handy sometimes to tell if it is time to head for shore.

But perhaps the point is, I don't really need to know that information because it wouldn't help with the approach I have.

Depth probably max. around 15m / 45' judging by float-line usage. I don't really need or want to go any deeper than that. The coastal waters I most encounter are fairly shallow, sometimes frustratingly so. Visibility is often poor. There are plenty of fish in this range; indeed I have caught good size fish in 1m depth of water.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andrew the fish
If you load the first band to the rear notch or fin then the front notch or fin will be buried under that band and you will have a very hard time getting the wishbone of the second band down to it. It there is a tall front fin you might have a chance, but its a notch in the shaft then I think its almost impossible to get the wishbone down through the first band to the slot.

Not entirely correct. The way you describe it, the bands will cross each other and will effect accuracy and band power. The proper way, per manufactures' recommendations, is to load the outer band (the one that is the at end of the muzzle) first to the notch/tab closest to the muzzle (if you have only two notches/tabs). You will need to run this band under the inner band. You then load the inner band to the notch/tab closer to the mechanism. When you are done, the bands will run parallel to each other, more or less, without crossing over each other with the inner band running "lower" and the outer band will be higher.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X
I don’t know what manufacturer you refer to but I, along with everyone I know, have been cocking big multi band guns the way I described it for at least 25 years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X
I don’t know what manufacturer you refer to but I, along with everyone I know, have been cocking big multi band guns the way I described it for at least 25 years.


The way that you describe doesn't mean it isn't going to work, it is just the other way is better. I have talked to few European manufacturers directly when buying double and triple band guns and this is what they said, it is better to run the bands being parallel to each other than crossing over. In fact, few manufacturers are producing muzzles with separate holes for the bands that have the holes at the slope to each other to enable the bands to run parallel to each other without crossing (Omer, Pathos, Meandros-sub, etc.).

Attached are pictures to illustrate the point:
 

Attachments

  • meandros81937a5b2062163aa7585bf164a4204a_1214.jpg
    meandros81937a5b2062163aa7585bf164a4204a_1214.jpg
    70.1 KB · Views: 225
  • meandros81937a5b2062163aa7585bf164a4204a_7700.jpg
    meandros81937a5b2062163aa7585bf164a4204a_7700.jpg
    54.2 KB · Views: 218
  • meandrose35f03981ed8080cde32719127f5bc21_1296.jpg
    meandrose35f03981ed8080cde32719127f5bc21_1296.jpg
    51.5 KB · Views: 209
  • meandrose35f03981ed8080cde32719127f5bc21_2114.jpg
    meandrose35f03981ed8080cde32719127f5bc21_2114.jpg
    51.6 KB · Views: 220
  • meandrose35f03981ed8080cde32719127f5bc21_3999.jpg
    meandrose35f03981ed8080cde32719127f5bc21_3999.jpg
    80.3 KB · Views: 245
I just don't get this "crossing over each other" thing. My bands run next to each other. And I'll go back to what I said before. If you load a band on the rear shark fin first, then the shark fins in front of it will be buried under the prevously loaded band. It will be very hard or impossible to get the next wishbone down to the fin. And if you manage to do it, it will be harder yet to get down to the front fin of three. Unfortunately I don't think to take photos of loaded guns so the one attached will have to do. Notice that the bands on the first and second fins lay next to each other. The articulated wishbone on the third band confuses the issue. I put it on to giver me better sigh lines down the top of the shaft. But let imagine that it had a regular dyneema wishbone.If it had been loaded first, then the band would have been tight against the first and second fins and would have made it very hard to get wishbones onto them. Now and then when I've had a new diver on my boat he has tried it your way and been unable to cock his gun. I have to tell him to start with the front fin, and then he does fine.
 

Attachments

  • articulated.JPG
    articulated.JPG
    1.3 MB · Views: 225
OK, maybe this will help. This video is of a guy who tests literally hundred of guns off all kinds. I used to own that very model of Abellan but its really irrelevant. You don't have to watch the whole thing. Just watch him load the first time. He's loading the band from the back of the muzzle to the first fin, the next band to the middle fin, and the last band to the third fin.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X
OK, maybe this will help. This video is of a guy who tests literally hundred of guns off all kinds. I used to own that very model of Abellan but its really irrelevant. You don't have to watch the whole thing. Just watch him load the first time. He's loading the band from the back of the muzzle to the first fin, the next band to the middle fin, and the last band to the third fin.


Here are better picture to illustrate what I mean:
 

Attachments

  • 01-spear-invictushf.jpg
    01-spear-invictushf.jpg
    107 KB · Views: 227
  • 03-spear-invictuscarbon.jpg
    03-spear-invictuscarbon.jpg
    83.7 KB · Views: 214
I also test a lot of guns & also have been using big multi rubber guns for decades.
I load the first rubber on the fin closest to the muzzle & then work my way back like that. The last rubber goes on the fin closest to the trigger mech. Never had a problem with this, never heard of a problem before, can not see a problem, so I certainly won’t be changing.
A sample of the guns which I use & didn’t realise I have been doing it all wrong?
384706AF-9683-4F54-B53F-6B060400493E.jpeg
AE639DC7-EBCD-4B38-897B-BFAD586BF5B2.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: foxfish
I also test a lot of guns & also have been using big multi rubber guns for decades.
I load the first rubber on the fin closest to the muzzle & then work my way back like that. The last rubber goes on the fin closest to the trigger mech. Never had a problem with this, never heard of a problem before, can not see a problem, so I certainly won’t be changing.
A sample of the guns which I use & didn’t realise I have been doing it all wrong?View attachment 55842View attachment 55846

I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing or if we aren't understanding each other but I have uploaded a picture in my post above illustrating what I meant very clearly (I hope) per several manufactures recommendations. In fact, the pictures above come a manufacturer's photos not mine.
 
I pull top through bottom band and load on notch closest to muzzle, then i load bottom rubber to notch closest to trigger mech,? Bands are parralelle beautiful,,, i guess what ever works, in my last 3 shots I have shot 3 kingfish, I'd put a pic up if I new how lol
 
I pull top through bottom band and load on notch closest to muzzle, then i load bottom rubber to notch closest to trigger mech,? Bands are parralelle beautiful,,, i guess what ever works, in my last 3 shots I have shot 3 kingfish, I'd put a pic up if I new how lol
 
I pull top through bottom band and load on notch closest to muzzle, then i load bottom rubber to notch closest to trigger mech,? Bands are parralelle beautiful,,, i guess what ever works, in my last 3 shots I have shot 3 kingfish, I'd put a pic up if I new how lol

I think that we are talking about the same thing, I have loaded pictures with band and tab numbers to illustrate what I meant but that post is waiting for admin approval to show up in the thread :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr. X
Heres the last kingi I shot 2 days before lockdown 20 kgs, I have a RA 120,, WHICH IS A KILLER,, just brought a carbon fiber 110 and an 80cm RA TUNA ROLLER gun, can't wait till lockdown ends
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20200403_194615_833.jpg
    IMG_20200403_194615_833.jpg
    3.8 MB · Views: 219
  • IMG_20200403_194615_833.jpg
    IMG_20200403_194615_833.jpg
    3.8 MB · Views: 226
Here are the pics again:
 

Attachments

  • 01-spear-invictushf.jpg
    01-spear-invictushf.jpg
    107 KB · Views: 227
  • 03-spear-invictuscarbon.jpg
    03-spear-invictuscarbon.jpg
    83.7 KB · Views: 222
Those photos show muzzles. Muzzles are indeed helpful in routing band up to be parallel to the shaft but they have nothing to do with the order in which bands should be loaded to fins.
 
Last edited:
Oh hell, I’m getting lost on my phone but one of the photos posted said exactly what i was saying. Band one loaded onto to tab A, etc.
 
DeeperBlue.com - The Worlds Largest Community Dedicated To Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing

ABOUT US

ISSN 1469-865X | Copyright © 1996 - 2024 deeperblue.net limited.

DeeperBlue.com is the World's Largest Community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving, Ocean Advocacy and Diving Travel.

We've been dedicated to bringing you the freshest news, features and discussions from around the underwater world since 1996.

ADVERT