Static PB's

Isabella welcome to deeperBlue...it was time
Nice to see divebuddies att this forum... its time to train together again but you remember form last time.. the pool is very "slow" i think its the saltwater...

Lambis

My pb is 6:50, since march this year, 2005.

After a succesful world championship 2005 in Rennes, two considerble PB's in Dynamic with fins:129m, dyn no fins 111m and a decent 6:27 static I'm picking static up again, trying and seeking for new experiences.

Yesterday I got one.

I did modest 5:18, but the numbers are not what interests me the most during training. To me it's about discovery new things in my body.

After coaching and buddying my partner, it was my turn. By the way I coach pretty active, adjusting my body to become slow too transmitting slow and relaxed thoughts and vibrations, in the mean while keeping a watchfull eye for signs and signals of any kind.
Anyway Today I decided to return to the 1 attempt training again. I had some new inspiration and thoughts trough viewing a presentation translating the power of sound. I wanted to test it out, because it made a lot of sence in relation to my experiences.
I laid down on my back floating in the water, mask on my forehead. Stating out with relaxing my body through autogen training, I talked to every part of my body to become heavy, relax, go slow and store O2 for the 'big hold'. The upper back needed extra attention. Than I gradually shifted my attention to my brain. Breathing is movement of air, and this creates sound, though not audiable to the normal ear. When I breath in at a certain pace through the nose, I can tune my brain and body really wel into this lower vibrational aeria, I think is called alpha state. I'm going to practice this more, but I know I'm on a interesting track. The 6:50 in the beginning of this year, I needed only about 10 minutes to enter this state of bliss, where my body knew what it was supposed to do and reacted in advance with vasoconstriction before I did any breathhold. The 6:50 was a special static in may way's and I made a report on my website with photo's about it: www.freeapnea.nl look under articles, 'Nuit d'Apnee - Seraign 2005'

The pre vasoconstriction is not yet fully back, as wel as the Co2 resistance but the relaxation seems heading for a new depths.
After about 15 minutes I gave my partner the two finger signal, telling him to do a two minutes countdown. I put on my Sphera mask, breathed about 4 5 times deep slow breaths, packed a bit to about 50% and roled over.
This was was deep I noticed right away, having closed eyes I saw a blue gradient colour and felt as my body was gently roling over on a forward direction as my legs floated up. I also noted my heart rate (waiting for the diagram) dropped right away like a stone, seemed faster than I've experienced before. Also the mental distance from my spirit and my body was very much noticeble as forgot, felt these arms were not me. Contractions began as a swallowing reflex pretty quick (no hyperventilation before dive, not a excessive high Co2 tolerance) at around 1:30, and turned into gradually ramping up in contractions at 2'. The relaxed stated of mind remained. I felt like my body was bend over to the right, so I moved my head to the left trying to correct this posture. According to my buddy I laid strait all the time, moving my head to the left medicated the contractions noticeble. After this head bend, contractions went to low intensity and started building up gradually again. At 5:18 I came up relaxed failing to have the will to fight trough the second wave of contractions, though the deep relaxation was still there. I'm very happy with this training because I noticed new things, and find that the sound-alpha-state does seem to work very wel, even better than I thought it would.

Maybe I should do another training nex sunday to rebuild up that Co2 resistance.

Wednesday is going to be the next static in water, see if I can get some more confirments or some new insights to share.

Love, Peace and Water!

Kars

//edit: Thanks to a tip of Akoni: I forgot to mention I ate a ricemeal at 1600, a small 4 hours to this static. I had some cramps in stomage on the toilet an hour before the attempt, I think due to some coconut meat I consumed the days before. Food has a major impact on Akoni's contractions, it would probably have on my contractions and performance too. Thanks Akoni!

No problem

Most of the times not eating the day I'm doing a static training helps a lot, I noticed I sometimes get contractions 2 minutes later than when I had eaten on the same day as my static training.

Hi Kars,
my english is bla bla sory..
you mean almost one year you never do any static 6:50min march 05 and now it is 5:18 jan 06
my question is ...you mean you leave working static and you checked it looks like same. people says..you stop you lost most of apnea...is it not true?...
can you gimme some info on this case!?...thnx

Something similar happened to me. My PB was 5'48" after a long long way to it. But I had a very bad flu, that take me away from training (dry and wet) for around 3 months, and then on a vacation trip I decide to take a shot to see how my static was going, and I did 5'46". That was a surprise.
I think that the rest period has a big importance in this discipline.

SEDATE, well typing an reading on this forum helps to grow your English, just keep talking!

It's not that I've stopped static training right after 5 march 2005, I sort of maintained to june, than it went to a low key training because I was focussing on my dynamic. As I wrote on the World Championship I did a decent 6:27 (I should have pushed on 4 seconds to be a finalist).

Since than I've done two more competitions, still very little static training. 6:05 in Wiensbaden and 6:0x something in Belgium (dressed to hot here!)

To my understanding static and freedive capebilities are made up from two things: Body adjustment and learned mental skills.
It's likely that your body returns to 'default' after a long pause in your diving.
But your mental and other skills will fade only in much slower pace. When you dive after a long pause, you're remembering 80-90% of your skills, and the other 20-10% you need to find back, relearn.

To Frank: That's a loooong flu you had! have you an Idea why it took so long to recover?
Like Frank says, rest is very important, it's so easy to overtrain and exhaust your body, be aware.

Tom Sietas does a 'max' static a day, exept for sundays'. And I wonder If he can maintain this very-high pace of training!

Ciao!

Kars

Hi Kars
I had a post-infectious cough that keep me away from any physical activity, I had it, just even walking.
But now, as Terminator said, I'm back

I have a similar experience to Frank. For a long time, I was really nervous about having breaks, because I didn't want to "lose it", the shape I had build. But eventually it was too taxing to train statics often so I just sort of gave it up for months.

In preparation for a competition a couple of weeks a go, I started it again, and immediately on the first static I was hitting times that I had earlier considered very rare (not pbs, but close). And within a week, personal bests both in water and dry static.

Well, competition is over and I'm on a break again. Maybe I could've set other pb's, but it seems pointless. I'll concentrate on other things and do the same thing again when a competition nears. Maybe it's different if you take a total and very long break, but for me at least, it seems that static shape doesn't go too far off if I don't actively train it.

I've spoken with Timo Kinnunen about similar experiences and he says he very rarely trains at all anymore. After building up to that 7-8 minute shape, he just seems to be always able to pull it off...Of course having solid routines for preparation helps

I thank you KARS for your explanations..
all the best, sedate

Hi people,

Last monday I did another static training.
I should note that the training took place at 22:00, and the hours before I spent in the following way: got up at 10:00, after my dad's birthdays party. did some nature icescating, 8KM cycling. At night I went to the pool, 10KM, but at arround 5KM my tyre went flat, and wanting to be at the pool in time I ran allong my bike the 5KM wearing heavy army boots, a 30min exercise. I got really warmed up in the pool I also adjusted my dinner meal, having it at arround 15:00.

The flexibility was great when I was finally at the pool, thanks to the 30min run. I ran through the basic stretched and pulled on my suit.
I explained the basic idea to my buddy, and started prepairing floating on my back. Breathing on my nose, creating a inaudiable low sound, and tune my bodily cells and brainwaves to that. Plus I asked my unconcious to be relaxed, and have less input processing. The unconcious processes 1.000.000 times more information than the concious mind does. This I learned monday through a interview I downloaded.
Well my static apnea capebilities are returning quickly. It's nice to know that I now getting into the actually technique and start naming things and explaining backgrouds etc.
I started out laying on my back by breathing slowly, lightly gently, steadily through my nose and directing my attention to the chakra points, starting with lower and working upwards. The 'Light' kicked in pretty quick, and my legs went light up to my waist, but stopped there. This time I was conciously very much allert, not away or in mental blissfull alpha state. Though my body was very relaxed, and into a lower vibrational state.
Than I was ready, rolled over and let my body be in this relaxed state, consiously monitoring it. This time the contractions were mild, and stayed mild. I thought they would be visible to my buddy, as mine contractions usually are, but he did not notice. He could only notice my deliberate head movements and my hand gestures etc. When you've read the 6:50 report, you know I had the same than in Belgium.
At 5:24 I broke off the training, have a feeling like the 4' compared to the previous 5:18. Now I know I'm on the right direction, and this training felt great and I feel boosted with energy. Next Wednesday I'll probably cross the 6' easily again, perhaps even more, who knows. Meanwhile I practice tuning in to sounds, going into alpha states etc.
When I get this more develloped I think I put it a sort of guide, manual.

Anyway I've got to go now,

Have fun training!

Love, peace and water!

Kars

I'm working on tables and haven't gone for a PB in a while. My CO2 and O2 tolerance is the best it has been, so maybe it's time to go for it!

Lucia

Hello ya all again, here's another training report from the Dutch mountains

Yesterday I had another static training. Beining on a sort of winning streak, meaning learning and exploring new angles and techniques, I expected an improvement over the last static. And there was a numeric improvement: 5:24 -> 6:20. Rather steep inclement I might add, but this was not as easy as the 5:24 of monday. Yesterday,Wednesday, I discoverd that I can improve on a couple of things: Rest - I had a bad sleep, food - I ate a few hours to late, warming up - was not well warmed up and stretched, lubricated - my suit needed a bit more lube I think. The peace of mind and focus was also not fully there.
Contractions were noticed after 4' by my buddy, I'm sure it started earlier, but that indicates that they are much smaller than they used to.
I think the warming up makes much difference to the contractions, and that's why the 5:24 went so easy after the 30min armyboot run.

Let's see what I'll do Next monday, perhabs I'll do a 10min run see how that's as a preperation?
Please take in mind that I've got the posture of a maraton runner, and more 'long' muscles.

To awnser Sedate's and possebly other's similar questions.

Do I recomment 1 attempt breathholds for everyone?

No I do not.
I think there are no ideal training schemes that apply for everyone and everyones' current level of performance.
Beginners have a lot to learn, and need more attempts to get used to Co2 and other things. For those I recomment the basic Umberto, Solomons' schemes, O2 / Co2. When your entering the regions of 4-5 minutes I suggest you try alternations, and shortening the amount of breathholds in trade of concentration on more quality. By quality I mean that you try to feel and learn more from every single dive, letting your body determin your schedule more. My O2 schedule looked like:

In general two minutes rest between dives.
fist breathhold, go to 50% 'effort' level.
2nd, 50% effort-level,
3rd, 70%
4th, 85%/90%

By '50% effort' I mean that you'll come up at the moment you feel you're half way. I don't use the watch, but my buddy makes notes of the times and tels me AFTERWARDS. At the moment I'm not interested in time, because I focus on relaxation and learning my body and mind. I don't need to worry about making the last weeks number because I know circomstances are different and my goal is learning. When I do a 90% on a 'weak day' I know I pushed just as hard as on a 'great day', and therefor it's a good training. This scheme helps in preventing SBS, Static Burnout Syndrome (www.apnea.nl).
Then when you approach the 6' zone it's nice to experiment in trying to gain that focus and readynes in less and less warm-up-time. Cut out on of the 50%, and you'll have the 50%, 70%, 90%. Cut out the 70%, and finally you can cut away any apnea befor doing a 90%. I'll save the Max (100%) for competitions, because they demand very much energy (SBS danger!) and I do not feel 100% effort training is very educational.

I hope you'll find this post helpfull and inspirational,

Love, Peace and Water!

Kars

Hey Kars - very interesting thread - I have more or less decided that max statics are not too good for me so have been doing just two after a bit of excercise (cycling) followed by some basic yoga.

So far so good and I agree that the feeling is more important than the times (to a degree ). I will try your methods more.

So you think that the step is at 6 mins ?

I am currently doing very relaxed holds at about 4:30 mins (second attempt - I only do two holds per session) with mild contractions at 3:20 to 3:30 then getting stronger to about 4:30 - not overpowering but at 4:30 I feel I have another 10% or maybe more ? left in me. Maybe I will practice like this for the winter and try a max max hold at the end of each month.

Thanks for your info - Ed

Well, about the 6 minutes: it's not to the second, it's arround.
I FEEL it seems that one has to put in something special to cross the 6 minute mark, not to be obtained by just mechenical executing tables, by any diver.

Ed, maybe you feel inspired to try the 'inaudiable sound' method I discribed earlier on after your first apnea. Float on your back, breath in trough your nose, and try to have steady low airflow generation low vibes, and have your brainwaves slow down and tune in, and synchonised. I usually need a 10-15 floating 'breath up' - I should say - slow down, sync my body and prepair.

Ciao!

Kars.

Keep in touch with us with another training reports, Kars
All the Best, Sedate

Hello
This is my PB:
3.00 dry static...first contractions 1.30
4.36 wet static...first contractions 2.10
I dont hiperventilate.I dont pack.
I like doing static in water,..it is easier to relax floating on the surface than sitting in a chair..water that surrounds me, relaxes my mind and my body..
I really cant imagine how you guys can achieve 7+ static on dry in living room ..

Bye

gnioco said:

Hello
This is my PB:
3.00 dry static...first contractions 1.30
4.36 wet static...first contractions 2.10
I dont hiperventilate.I dont pack.
I like doing static in water,..it is easier to relax floating on the surface than sitting in a chair..water that surrounds me, relaxes my mind and my body..
I really cant imagine how you guys can achieve 7+ static on dry in living room ..Bye

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First time i heard one making static work in the pool Mate, it is reallyyyy dangerius if no one next to you, you can never feel BO , suddenly comess like my gf :vangry
it is too diffucult to become or make yourself BO at home because of you start holding breath you think no air comes in..but it is not true, very very little ratio comes in from your nostril you can not feell due to X if you also have closed epiglotis
X= My english not enough to explain it mate
my last word if you feel first 2.10 and your wet becomes 4.36 my idea you force yourself,
i have same ratio wet 4:30 but first comes 2.50 second comes 3.15 very very soft constraction not making me unhapy in water,
at home 3.15 first very soft constarction i do 4:50 and so here there are many best apneist who can help you . 2:00 min warm up before static is the best if you make more warm up it does not work very well but 5+ big hold changes warm up technic, next level mate..you have to break 5 min if i manage the break the wall i will tell you...just working on it
i am still in the first page , i did not turn the first page mate!, take care!

I had a previous PB of 7.03 leading up to the Cyrpus competition in 2005. Then nearly a year of not training statics, did 6.55 and then 7.00 on my first 2 real tries. The reason why you loose very little of your 'breathold ability' after a long break because I believe it has nothing to do with your body. The main parts to a good breathold are learned skill and the second is the 'dive response' which is lower level brain functions (unconscious). Just knowing you can do it because you have before and staying relaxed gets you half way there. You definitely do lose CO2 tolerance after a long time of not training everything 'feels' a lot harder, so most people tend to shy away from doing anything near maxes.

If people stop thinking about freedive training causing physical adaptations on the body, and realize it's mostly that of learned skill and part training the dive reflex which is also in the brain then things start making a lot more sense in this sport.

Cheers,
Wal

SEDATE said:

it is too diffucult to become or make yourself BO at home because of you start holding breath you think no air comes in..but it is not true, very very little ratio comes in from your nostril you can not feell due to X if you also have closed epiglotis

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I have had many LMCs while doing dry statics, but only one or two that I totally lost consciousness during (I think ). I believe the reason you don't have a complete BO during dry statics is because, unlike in water where your body can sense that the face is submerged through sensors about the face, during dry statics their is always air present at these sensors and so the body can begin breathing immediately when LMC occurs.

I have compared my dry statics with and without a mask, and did not find a noticeable difference.

Walrus said:

I had a previous PB of 7.03 leading up to the Cyrpus competition in 2005. Then nearly a year of not training statics, did 6.55 and then 7.00 on my first 2 real tries. The reason why you loose very little of your 'breathold ability' after a long break because I believe it has nothing to do with your body. The main parts to a good breathold are learned skill and the second is the 'dive response' which is lower level brain functions (unconscious). Just knowing you can do it because you have before and staying relaxed gets you half way there. You definitely do lose CO2 tolerance after a long time of not training everything 'feels' a lot harder, so most people tend to shy away from doing anything near maxes.

If people stop thinking about freedive training causing physical adaptations on the body, and realize it's mostly that of learned skill and part training the dive reflex which is also in the brain then things start making a lot more sense in this sport.
Cheers,
Wal

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Good info Wal , i ll keep it in my mind I never heard before , some says...stop...you loose apnea ability...hımmm..it should be not true!