The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diameter

[Pastor]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

Sharkfin spears can be had from Greece no worries. Trygons make them for their enclosed track guns (yes they are state of the art Euro guns). So why do I think an enclosed 90 is a good idea? Well I hunt in the UK, so smallish fish and no real need for the 7mm spear I have sat on my Wong. Ideally if it were down to me I would just shoot a 6mm spear from a 90. I don't care what you say that will whip when fired even with 16mm bands. Seriously, how flat is the trajectory of your shaft? Consistent it might be but I doubt flat. Imagine suppressing that initial whipping! Trygons are at the cutting edge of this new concept in Euro guns, they didn't risk all on a whim. Remember these words, in no time they will be common place in European spearos hands. This is a chance I think for us all to be at the forefront of Eurogun design, how many times will that happen? Seize the moment!

 

[spaghetti]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

Sharkfin spears can be had from Greece no worries. Trygons make them for their enclosed track guns (yes they are state of the art Euro guns). So why do I think an enclosed 90 is a good idea? Well I hunt in the UK, so smallish fish and no real need for the 7mm spear I have sat on my Wong. Ideally if it were down to me I would just shoot a 6mm spear from a 90. I don't care what you say that will whip when fired even with 16mm bands. Seriously, how flat is the trajectory of your shaft? Consistent it might be but I doubt flat. Imagine suppressing that initial whipping! Trygons are at the cutting edge of this new concept in Euro guns, they didn't risk all on a whim. Remember these words, in no time they will be common place in European spearos hands. This is a chance I think for us all to be at the forefront of Eurogun design, how many times will that happen? Seize the moment!

I don't understand. Could you please put it simple? What is, according to your view, the forefront of Eurogun design, and why?

 

[Pastor]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

Well they are using complex shapes in moulded carbon fibre much like C4 and they are using enclosed tracks unlike most other european manufactures.

We all say don't use so and so bands on that shaft, it will be over powered! Even though a thin lightweight thin shaft that would travel at a higher velocity would be ideal with skittish small fish at a distance. Being able to tame that oscillating shaft would be something that I think would put a gun design at the forefront. It's pure simple Newtonian mathematics/mechanics

 

[Jonny250]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

I have just changed to a 6mm spear on my 750 gun, hoping it will be quicker and a tad more range. In this context, i struggle with the logic of a wood gun (high mass / more power potential) and a thin shaft; it just don't seem right...

i like the idea of the rail gun, actually i really like the idea of a railgun, but the electrics could be suspect under water... :crutch
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun"]Railgun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
"The U.S. Navy has tested a railgun that accelerates a 7 pound bullet to the speed of 7 times the speed of sound."

this could be something oh so beautiful

 

[Marwan]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

ideally if its a single band i would go with either 6.3 and 18mm, or 6.75 spear and 20mm, both deadly combinations, depending on your target...soooo from the options above, i would go with the open track in 6.5mm which is closer to the setup of maybe the seatec gabbiano...(though the gabbiano is 6.3mm)...

 

[octpora]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

Went 6.5 enclosed because

1; it would be different

2; a little extra accuracy never hurt (except on the tongue of an informed, sarcastic pessimist)

3; I don't have to build the sucker

4; as fish go extinct, we need the smaller spear to make sure we can harvest every last guppy in the sea

5; I have a really bad twitch in my finger and it tells me where to stick it.

 

[blaiz]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

I voted 6.5mm enclosed track. Where I live in hawaii (and im sure I will be using this gun:blackeye) A 90 is a great reef gun so I dont think you need the punch that a 7 mm will have. and like noted above, since it will be a single band gun I think the 6.5 will be a great combo. Also I have never used a enclosed track before and think it will be pretty cool:t

 

[podge]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

6.5 with the enclosed track, as I haven’t got one and I reckon it’ll look the business.

 

[Newbie_spearo]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

I voted 7mm Rail, but im thinking 6.5 enclosed, coz it sure will be fast and no shaft whip and that baby. But to be perfectly Honest I don't really care what it has as long as it has my name on it and my address on the packaging!

 

[Dobs]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

How much power you think a single band will give to a 6.5 mm shaft that will need an enclosed track?
I don't really understand the idea of an enclosed track gun with only one band, let alone a 90 cm gun...
But anyway, it is democracy here in DB

 

[foxfish]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

Fascinating how the gun is developing! Not for one second did I think we would be building a 90 single band gun! & now we might have one with a enclosed track :hmm
Great stuff

 

[foxfish]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

There has been a few posts suggesting an enclosed track is not necessary but are there any disadvantages?

 

[spaghetti]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

There has been a few posts suggesting an enclosed track is not necessary but are there any disadvantages?

Well Foxy I've never seen an enclosed track gun in my whole life if not in pictures, and it wouldn't be smart of me to comment about a type gun that I've never used, never seen, never discussed much about either.
But let's see the possible downsides, and let's find a solution for each of them. I like Pastor's input to be at the forefront of design and I'm enthusiastic of this mission to design something new, something very special.
I think the possible (read carefully: I said "possible") disadvantages on an enclosed track single band 90cm eurogun could be the following:
1) I guess you won't have the cleanest and most immediate view on the shaft, cause the spear will be "buried" into the barrell, making the aiming less immediate.
2) To make room for the enclosed track we'll have to carve away a big amount of mass inside the barrell, and we'll have to compensate with a wide, maybe bulky overall mass and thickness of the barrell. This is likely to affect badly the tracking/swinging of the gun.
3) Tracking: if the gun has much mass in the side of the muzzle, it won't be easy to track also due to the physics law of levers and arms.
4) Maybe the track might give a lot of drag wasting power of the shaft
...
None of these possible downsides will in any case affect accuracy.
1) The fact that aiming might be uneasy doesn't mean that the shaft won't go straight. It will go straight. But we must find a way to make the aiming more immediate ebcause even the most accurate, sharpshooting gun must be aimed right on target (how? longer shaft? paint an aiming line in fluo yellow along the upper edges of the track? As you see I din't mention a laser pointer rofl, I'm in the good spirit for helping, of course).
2) The big bulky mass with a thin shaft won't affect accuracy as the opposite would do (thick shaft w. thin gun means inaccuracy: I think it has to do with the physical law of Momentum).
Solutions have to do with a slick shape to make the gun track sweetly despite its mass (and the distribution of the mass).
I have a few ideas but maybe too fancy...

 

[podge]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

Spaggie you’re from Italy, it’s supposed to be fancy after all just look at your car’s they’re all pretty fancy and I own one of them just like I’d love to own this super fancy speargun. You fancy away mate as for one I’m all ears and eyes awaiting your input.
After all this is going to be a one off custom built gun so why not break a few rules in the building of it.

 

[Pastor]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

Actually you don't remove more material with an enclosed track you add a little more around the shaft which in itself can reduce drag caused by turbulance. Now if it does end up with a cuttlefish shape than the bands could be partially sunk into the wings to reduce drag even further. The possibilities are endless!

Now how did we used to aim those old closed muzzle euro guns?

 

[foxfish]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

I have only built one wooden Euro style enclosed track gun but it has a very slim muzzle & offers a fantastic sight line.
I will rig the spear (when is arrives) with a ring slider because I dont want to spoil the sight line with line running back down the spear.
& before Pastor makes some hilarious comment - no that is not my hand!

 

[blaiz]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

any thoughts on the slide ring being too loud when fired? I know my first gun had a ring on it and I hated it.

 

[foxfish]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

Well I was not suggesting that our gun will have a slider just that mine will but to answer your question, no very quiet if you use derlin plastic.
Lots of people will tell you ring sliders are crap but some of the worlds most powerful & accurate guns use them as standard - like my mamba!
There are lots of statements about spear guns that I feel are far to broad to be correct in every instance.

 

[foxfish]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

Well Foxy Solutions have to do with a slick shape to make the gun track sweetly despite its mass (and the distribution of the mass).
I have a few ideas but maybe too fancy...

I hope we get to hear about those ideas?

 

[Mongrel454]

Re: The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 3 - Rail & Spear Diame

The fancier the better....Speak up Spaghetti