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very deep dives without mouthfil?
- Thread starter dannybuoy
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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It doesn't really matter much, as long as the epiglottis stays shut - I am only interested in seeing how far I can equalise on the strength of a single mouthfill from the surface.
Today it was 40m, and it was probably close to empty, as I exhaled as much air as possible through the mouthfill before dropping (i.e. passive exhale, mouthfill, then keep on exhaling while maintaining fully expanded cheeks, then descend).
Might work, but very difficult and risky, and there would be little motivation since a standard mouthfill can get you way deeper than you need anyway.
I still didn't start to use mouthfill the proper way. Just ventilation + comfortable (not huge) inhale...and 42m. Unfortunately, I'm not training now. Waiting for Aharon to come to Israel 
But I just wanna find out how many more metters I'll go before I'll manage to use mouthfill!? :-/
But I just wanna find out how many more metters I'll go before I'll manage to use mouthfill!? :-/You can make it almost as deep with a sphera (I got 33m once), since the sphera can be taken to 40m without equalizing it at all. Any mask, however, reduces the mouthfill volume by pressure on the cheeks (preventing them from expanding).
I don't know exactly, as my spirometer doesn't work well for measuring mouthfills. Based on comparisons with previous dives with known mouthfill volumes I would say that it must have been close to 400mL in order to get me to 40m.
Ahhhh no..... Will learned the mouth fill, now we're all f**ked
DD
Couldn't have said it better... maybe I should keep my tips to myself next time...
Ahhhh no..... Will learned the mouth fill, now we're all f**ked
DD
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So Eric, based on your experience will you want to make a prediction to Will´s improvement?
When talking about Will's potential improvement and so on it's very easy to forget that Will, Eric, Dave etc have actually put in the hard work over the years to work on the flexibility needed (diaphragm, chest, lungs etc) - either through lots of diving or stretching or both. I know from other discussions with others that have participated in this thread that they have developed their own systems of stretching etc to achieve the same. I really don't want to speak on Marcus' behalf but I am sure he is a big believer in this.
It's a fact that for most people here it will be more difficult at a certain depth (depends on the individual) to extract air from the lungs to EQ with rather than using stored air from the mouth. It is also a fact that certain people have dived to incredible depths by EQ by extracting air from the lungs.
I consider EQ as a very individual thing - it depends on each person's targets when it comes to diving and surely their physiology. It's also a fact that for most people it will take much longer to achieve the flexibility needed than to learn to mouthfil.
However, purely in my opinion, if someone starting to freedive is stuck early on at a certain relatively shallow depth with EQ and the issue is due to lack of this flexibility, then teaching them to mouthfil instead of getting them to work on that flexibility is not the best approach and indeed a quick fix. Also (and would be interested to hear Eric's view on this too) it sounds to me that taking a huge mouthfil at a decent depth by the cannonball manoeuvre will not come without risks for the average freediver that hasn't got the necessary flexibility.
The mouthfil has taken many to great depths so I don't think anyone disputes that it works. However, it's a very simple fact that once you've mastered it there is not much more gains you can get from it other than be able to take the same huge mouthfil at a deeper depth - for that one would need to put in the hard work to work on flexibility and so on which, as demonstrated by some, can achieve incredible results too.
For each individual wanting to use mouthfil at any given point in his diving career there will be an optimum depth to take the mouthfil at (the equation is not to hard if you think about it) - there is no reason not to try and extend this optimum depth by continuing to work on one's flexibility. Of course, looking at the depths achieved with a mouthfil (eg Eric's 100+ with air left) it's logical to conclude that for the average freediver, if he can take the mouthfil as deep and as efficiently as Eric (or even 10-15m earlier than Eric) EQ will not be their limiting factor ever!
From the discussion above, taking this mouthfil does sound like very effort-intensive and personally, being a relative beginner, I would be a bit worried doing it. If someone can come up with a method that can achieve similar results without needing this effort or breaking the streamline for me it would be worth learning.
Worth pointing out that the above are purely my own personal thoughts (wouldn't go as far as calling it an opinion because I still have a lot to learn and experience as a freediver)
Posted via Mobile Device
It's a fact that for most people here it will be more difficult at a certain depth (depends on the individual) to extract air from the lungs to EQ with rather than using stored air from the mouth. It is also a fact that certain people have dived to incredible depths by EQ by extracting air from the lungs.
I consider EQ as a very individual thing - it depends on each person's targets when it comes to diving and surely their physiology. It's also a fact that for most people it will take much longer to achieve the flexibility needed than to learn to mouthfil.
However, purely in my opinion, if someone starting to freedive is stuck early on at a certain relatively shallow depth with EQ and the issue is due to lack of this flexibility, then teaching them to mouthfil instead of getting them to work on that flexibility is not the best approach and indeed a quick fix. Also (and would be interested to hear Eric's view on this too) it sounds to me that taking a huge mouthfil at a decent depth by the cannonball manoeuvre will not come without risks for the average freediver that hasn't got the necessary flexibility.
The mouthfil has taken many to great depths so I don't think anyone disputes that it works. However, it's a very simple fact that once you've mastered it there is not much more gains you can get from it other than be able to take the same huge mouthfil at a deeper depth - for that one would need to put in the hard work to work on flexibility and so on which, as demonstrated by some, can achieve incredible results too.
For each individual wanting to use mouthfil at any given point in his diving career there will be an optimum depth to take the mouthfil at (the equation is not to hard if you think about it) - there is no reason not to try and extend this optimum depth by continuing to work on one's flexibility. Of course, looking at the depths achieved with a mouthfil (eg Eric's 100+ with air left) it's logical to conclude that for the average freediver, if he can take the mouthfil as deep and as efficiently as Eric (or even 10-15m earlier than Eric) EQ will not be their limiting factor ever!
From the discussion above, taking this mouthfil does sound like very effort-intensive and personally, being a relative beginner, I would be a bit worried doing it. If someone can come up with a method that can achieve similar results without needing this effort or breaking the streamline for me it would be worth learning.
Worth pointing out that the above are purely my own personal thoughts (wouldn't go as far as calling it an opinion because I still have a lot to learn and experience as a freediver)
Posted via Mobile Device
Last edited:
Standard mask (Omer alien) surface mouthfill FRC 26m. Still comfortable dive but wasted slot of air on mask EQ. So no mask or xphera should get me back up to my training peak and a bit further. 1st day of FRC dives in too long.
Simos I agree that mouth fill alone is not the answer but like any good tradesmen we have multiple tools to allow us to work as effectively as possible. Most peo ole looking at mouth fill technique have reached there comfortable limits on standard frenzel and are looking for the next key to increase depth. Increasing flexibility is a very important aspect which I would be surprised to hear any deeper diver does not work on as much as their mouth fill technique.
The technique Eric is describing is not necessary for medium mouth fill dives, but will allow those pushing the boundary to get the extra air they need. A good mouth fill ( not breaking streamline) is still possible and can comfortably take an inhale diver to depths approaching 100m I believe. As per anything there are different levels of techniques and Eric is describing the limit (as we know it for mouth fill) which requires as much pressure as possible to be applied to get the biggest possible mouth fill. Does not mean this is the only option? I know my way of mouth filling is not as labour intensive, although using the same basic technique but my max depth is not as far most likely I'd say around 80-90m ( theoretically).
Posted via Mobile Device
Simos I agree that mouth fill alone is not the answer but like any good tradesmen we have multiple tools to allow us to work as effectively as possible. Most peo ole looking at mouth fill technique have reached there comfortable limits on standard frenzel and are looking for the next key to increase depth. Increasing flexibility is a very important aspect which I would be surprised to hear any deeper diver does not work on as much as their mouth fill technique.
The technique Eric is describing is not necessary for medium mouth fill dives, but will allow those pushing the boundary to get the extra air they need. A good mouth fill ( not breaking streamline) is still possible and can comfortably take an inhale diver to depths approaching 100m I believe. As per anything there are different levels of techniques and Eric is describing the limit (as we know it for mouth fill) which requires as much pressure as possible to be applied to get the biggest possible mouth fill. Does not mean this is the only option? I know my way of mouth filling is not as labour intensive, although using the same basic technique but my max depth is not as far most likely I'd say around 80-90m ( theoretically).
Posted via Mobile Device