Wow...the deflection on the flukes is quite extreme...!!!
My package is finally moving! Will give my impressions when I do receive and test it...
My package is finally moving! Will give my impressions when I do receive and test it...
-
Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
- Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
- Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
- Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
- Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
- All this and much more...
You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!
2015 LUNOCET PRO
- Thread starterChipswim
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
- Status
So happy to hear yours is on the way Kervyn! Can't wait for your observations.
The swimmer in the photos is a near perfect example of extended knees and pointed toes. Wow!
I notice each of the shots is on the power side of the stroke and one is gliding. A couple of shots from the reset side of the stroke might also be interesting if you have them.
It is great to see the fin in detail at work! Thanks for providing these early images!
About the deflection... She is clearly delivering some nice power to the fin. I remember AA prefers a softer setting for himself and it's his fin in the pictures. Doc told me there is plenty of adjustment and he does not feel the the deflection limits newly built into the 2015 hinge are being reached during his normal swimming.
The swimmer in the photos is a near perfect example of extended knees and pointed toes. Wow!
I notice each of the shots is on the power side of the stroke and one is gliding. A couple of shots from the reset side of the stroke might also be interesting if you have them.
It is great to see the fin in detail at work! Thanks for providing these early images!
About the deflection... She is clearly delivering some nice power to the fin. I remember AA prefers a softer setting for himself and it's his fin in the pictures. Doc told me there is plenty of adjustment and he does not feel the the deflection limits newly built into the 2015 hinge are being reached during his normal swimming.
Last edited:
My 2015 Lunocet Pro review is now live, complete with some video footage:
https://www.deeperblue.com/lunocet-pro-2015-review/
https://www.deeperblue.com/lunocet-pro-2015-review/
Nice piece AA. All I need now is to get mine, get in the pool and get the love too.
Thanks again, AA, for another detailed and insightful review. The fact that your knee problems have gotten worse is really tragic, seeing as you have invested so much time and attention in Ted's project, and that its fruits are finally becoming available. You have my sympathies and best wishes for a full recovery, and I am certain that many of the readers of this forum share these sentiments.
I read at the end of your review that you weren't particularly excited about maintaining your shape as a freediver during your downtime, and I hope that I can change your mind about this. I had a foot injury (a lisfranc dislocation) a few years ago that made it too painful for me to wear any fins, so I concentrated on improving my no-fins technique and even kept up, for the most part, with my friends in advanced training. It made me focus on subtleties of technique and sensation, and allowed me to modify my stroke, making it more efficient. I also became quite passionate about the open water discipline of constant-weight with no fins as a result. Basically, my injury made me appreciate another aspect of freediving that I was not particularly interested in before.
In your case, if you would permit me to make a suggestion, I hope that you will see this as a good chance to focus on breathing and relaxation. This is a worthwhile and even challenging pursuit. At one point in his career Umberto Pelizzari, who followed the training of Jacques Mayol, spent two years focusing on this aspect of freediving before returning to competition. With this in mind, the freediving club that I belong to decided to begin a class that focuses on static apnea. We spend half of our time exercising the diaphragm and ribcage, doing pranayama inspired breathing techniques and training mentally through autogenic relaxation and mindfulness hypnosis (like sophrology) - this is all before we do dry statics and then suit up to do static apnea in the pool. We also mix up the breath-holding exercises to keep it fun. Participants in this class who train in other disciplines apply these better breathing and relaxation habits to their practice, and some find benefits in their daily lives, such as dealing with work stress. Whether you practice relaxation and deep breathing alone or in a group, there is enough challenge and satisfaction in them to make them worth your time. I'm sure that you can also find a meditation class in your area that would help you with this (after which you could squeeze in some short empty-lung static tables) - that is how I got started.
I'm sure that you've already given plenty of thought to what to do in your downtime, AA, and this is really more encouragement than advice. In any case, I do hope that you take the time to recover fully (and not risk another injury) and that your off-season freediving practice can still be fulfilling, even improving, while you heal.
Regarding the 2015 Lunocet pro (seems like I forgot which forum I was writing in), I'm looking forward to seeing if it performs as well on wall turns as its predecessors. AA, you make a valid point about this in your review, and I'd really like to put some emphasis on it. Wall turns have always been a problem for me with my fiberglass hyperfin. Having tried the Luno classic, I found that it's greatest advantage over a traditional monofin was its dexterity at the wall. If that dexterity can be combined with better propulsion, then I think we have something to make the makers of traditional monofins shudder.
Thanks AA for the review and good luck with the knee. Been there and it ain't fun.
I really wish you could have had more time with the fin. Its a truism, but absolutely true, that the biggest variable in gear testing is the testor. Unless the testor has experience and expertise with the different things he or she is trying to compare and can think analytically about what should be tested, his/her impressions are not worth much. Only someone who knows both types of gear and spends enough time to optimize their technique with each can have any chance of providing a competent comparative review. As examples, you comparing a hyperfin with a luno, Fondueset comparing a hyperfin to a Dolfin Orca, me comparing a Dolfin to bifins. The other three testors obviously liked the fin. Thats promising. Their technique looked pretty good, so I'll assume a strong level of competence, also promising. But none of that provides much comparative information.
Your comments from a very brief trial strongly suggest that the luno is improving, but how much? Is it near hyperfin performance?, is it much better than bifins, enough to overcome a monos inherent lessor maneuverability?, have the durability problems been beaten? The reader can not tell.
As it is, the review is closer to a great marketing piece(outstanding pics and illustrations) than a serious comparative review.It tells an knowledgeable reader very little. Your previous review of the classic was much more thorough. It wasn't hard to read between the lines and tell that the classic wasn't going to meet the needs of many freedivers. I'd sure like to see something of similar or greater rigor for the Pro.
Connor
Just an addition to Raffys comments. The foil monos, Dolfin and Luno classic alike, seem share some subtle and hard to quantify characteristics that make them more like bifins in dexterity and ability to make fine adjustments, and something else I can't quite put a name on. The Dolfin(my experience) is just easier to move around in than a more traditional mono, the luno classic seems similar. My guess is that this is mostly a function of the very small blade area. I hope the pro, even with its larger surface area, continues with those characteristics.
I really wish you could have had more time with the fin. Its a truism, but absolutely true, that the biggest variable in gear testing is the testor. Unless the testor has experience and expertise with the different things he or she is trying to compare and can think analytically about what should be tested, his/her impressions are not worth much. Only someone who knows both types of gear and spends enough time to optimize their technique with each can have any chance of providing a competent comparative review. As examples, you comparing a hyperfin with a luno, Fondueset comparing a hyperfin to a Dolfin Orca, me comparing a Dolfin to bifins. The other three testors obviously liked the fin. Thats promising. Their technique looked pretty good, so I'll assume a strong level of competence, also promising. But none of that provides much comparative information.
Your comments from a very brief trial strongly suggest that the luno is improving, but how much? Is it near hyperfin performance?, is it much better than bifins, enough to overcome a monos inherent lessor maneuverability?, have the durability problems been beaten? The reader can not tell.
As it is, the review is closer to a great marketing piece(outstanding pics and illustrations) than a serious comparative review.It tells an knowledgeable reader very little. Your previous review of the classic was much more thorough. It wasn't hard to read between the lines and tell that the classic wasn't going to meet the needs of many freedivers. I'd sure like to see something of similar or greater rigor for the Pro.
Connor
Just an addition to Raffys comments. The foil monos, Dolfin and Luno classic alike, seem share some subtle and hard to quantify characteristics that make them more like bifins in dexterity and ability to make fine adjustments, and something else I can't quite put a name on. The Dolfin(my experience) is just easier to move around in than a more traditional mono, the luno classic seems similar. My guess is that this is mostly a function of the very small blade area. I hope the pro, even with its larger surface area, continues with those characteristics.
Connor I hear your sentiments of wanting to have more and quantified measurements and comparisons. I hope that someone with a good monofinning technique, and CWT ability can test the various products in depth, without bias. Bias is difficult to evade, if you're given the product you'll feel obliged, if you've bought the product you'll feel ashamed to admit you did not spend your money the best way you could.
Maybe the best situation is to be lend the fin by an acquaintance, and then review it avoiding both bias traps?
What simple test could be done to test the monofin's ability: a max dynamic, and a Max CWT dive. If you do not have that much depth available, wear 3 or more kg extra, and see how the products stands hard use under pressure, and how it compares.
Maybe it's a bit early days for a review - these things take time - and we need to wait for a friend to receive their product and enjoy the honeymoon period before we can test, measure, compare and criticises it.
Maybe the best situation is to be lend the fin by an acquaintance, and then review it avoiding both bias traps?
What simple test could be done to test the monofin's ability: a max dynamic, and a Max CWT dive. If you do not have that much depth available, wear 3 or more kg extra, and see how the products stands hard use under pressure, and how it compares.
Maybe it's a bit early days for a review - these things take time - and we need to wait for a friend to receive their product and enjoy the honeymoon period before we can test, measure, compare and criticises it.
I get what you are saying: Don't be distracted! Beware of the shark (bias) in the picture!
That said.... I am grateful for ALL the WONDERFUL input!
Clearly the 2015 Lunocet Pro thread is more interesting with people actually swimming 2015 Lunocet Pros entering the picture! What a concept !!! I hope that fins keep arriving and that type of information continues streaming more and more..... From swimmers of all the levels and all the options.
An accumulation of First impressions and images is greatly appreciated until more substantiation with data, high level swimmers, and head to head comparisons .... Maybe results from competitions and swimmers from an alternate bias begin to emerge. This should lead to a very interesting near future!
That said.... I am grateful for ALL the WONDERFUL input!
Clearly the 2015 Lunocet Pro thread is more interesting with people actually swimming 2015 Lunocet Pros entering the picture! What a concept !!! I hope that fins keep arriving and that type of information continues streaming more and more..... From swimmers of all the levels and all the options.
An accumulation of First impressions and images is greatly appreciated until more substantiation with data, high level swimmers, and head to head comparisons .... Maybe results from competitions and swimmers from an alternate bias begin to emerge. This should lead to a very interesting near future!
Last edited:
Hi Kars,
Borrowing one has a lot to recommend it- Boy would I like to get my hands on a new Luno. Even so, the expectations and honeymoon can really trip you up. Been there, done that. Once spent way too much money on a set of too hard fancy blades.
Testing a mono for max efficiency in dynamic should be fairly easy, if the testor takes the time to adjust his technique to each fin, no small task. Given equally effective technique, how far can you swim with each? Simple, right?. . . yeah.
Beyond a simple dynamic, it gets real complicated, I don't have much idea. Still, a good comparative review can tell us a lot.
Borrowing one has a lot to recommend it- Boy would I like to get my hands on a new Luno. Even so, the expectations and honeymoon can really trip you up. Been there, done that. Once spent way too much money on a set of too hard fancy blades.
Testing a mono for max efficiency in dynamic should be fairly easy, if the testor takes the time to adjust his technique to each fin, no small task. Given equally effective technique, how far can you swim with each? Simple, right?. . . yeah.
Beyond a simple dynamic, it gets real complicated, I don't have much idea. Still, a good comparative review can tell us a lot.
cdavis, you make some good points about tester variability. If a tester is accustomed to one particular hyperfin, for example, and switches to a completely different fin such as a Luno, there is a learning/adaptation curve. I've switched back and forth several times between each of three Lunos (!) and a Glide fin, and am always surprised at how different the experience is in either direction. Having someone else "try a fin" is best done by having a long enough time to adapt/learn the fin.
Along with all the thoughts about objective, out-and-out, performance comparisons, which are a wortthy exercise in their own right, it is also worth reiterating some of the other properties of the Lunocet, namely comfort and portability.
When I first happend upon the Lunocet, in an early wing-like form in 2009 I think it was; the cycling shoe interface struck me as being inspired. Given the oft repeated statements about not being able to wear a conventional monofin for more than 20 minutes at a time due to cramped foot pockets (I don't know if this is an exaggeration) it seems the Lunocet and its ilk's solution is a no-brainer.
In its recent incarnation, the ability to dismantel for travel is also a property that should require little thought to its utility.
To my mind, if the Lunocet Pro 2015 was only equivalent in performance to a conventional monofin then it should still win hands down.
I look foward to my notification of shipment and a timely arrival.
Good fining to you all
When I first happend upon the Lunocet, in an early wing-like form in 2009 I think it was; the cycling shoe interface struck me as being inspired. Given the oft repeated statements about not being able to wear a conventional monofin for more than 20 minutes at a time due to cramped foot pockets (I don't know if this is an exaggeration) it seems the Lunocet and its ilk's solution is a no-brainer.
In its recent incarnation, the ability to dismantel for travel is also a property that should require little thought to its utility.
To my mind, if the Lunocet Pro 2015 was only equivalent in performance to a conventional monofin then it should still win hands down.
I look foward to my notification of shipment and a timely arrival.
Good fining to you all
Along with the regular questions about who knows what's happening, how will it perform and when am I going to get mine, there is also the one about what to wear on your feet.
Various threads have covered this previously but to keep our spirits up, can I ask those who' ve got a 2015 Pro to say what cycling shoes they're using with theirs and what, if any, fin socks, neoprene or otherwise, they're using?
In anticipation, I purchased an oversized Bont Riot Road shoe and both 2mm and 5mm neoprene fin socks.
From what they've learnt so far would they consider having a shoe for the pool with either no or a thin fin sock and a large shoe with thicker fin socks for open water?
Various threads have covered this previously but to keep our spirits up, can I ask those who' ve got a 2015 Pro to say what cycling shoes they're using with theirs and what, if any, fin socks, neoprene or otherwise, they're using?
In anticipation, I purchased an oversized Bont Riot Road shoe and both 2mm and 5mm neoprene fin socks.
From what they've learnt so far would they consider having a shoe for the pool with either no or a thin fin sock and a large shoe with thicker fin socks for open water?
What you need for socks is probably highly dependent on how the shoes fit the individual diver and how much neoprene you need to keep warm. Dol-fin or Luno, probably make little difference in this. Using Sunoto shoes in warm water, I sometimes wear nylon socks for comfort, but can often get away with completely barefoot.
I think you're on the right path Philip.
I can get away with 1 pair of shoes with no sock, a 2mm sock or a 3mm sock.
I might be able to fit a 4mm in there - not sure yet.
If you need 2 shoes... You're diving really cold water and need 5mm+ socks.
The shoe adds SOME warmth / protection. In your situation, I think I'd get a pair of Argos 2mm and 4mm socks and find a shoe that works with both.
I hope yours arrives soon. You're going to love it.
After swimming regularly with the 2015 Pro for over a month, I feel I can share some impressions about the fin. I do not have hard numbers to share, though I recognize their value and hope to provide some in the future. I'm working on it; my static is now over 3 minutes which is much better than it was initially. To review my setup (and address Philip Fennell's question) I've been using Specialized cycling shoes with carbon soles and two velcro straps/one ratchet strap. This is far from the most hydrodynamic setup I can imagine, but it is what I had and has held up through three different generations of Lunocet so far. I use neoprene toe socks (same ones I use in my Carbon Glide) though I also have used Speedo 2.5mm fin socks. I have had no problems with foot plates or peduncle attachments coming loose. For transport, I use either a long freedive fin bag or an Xterra swim bag that is more like a small pack. I usually keep Cressi 3000LD fins, a pole spear and dive flag in the long bag, but I can put the disassembled Lunocet in it with the Cressi fins and swim gear. I sometimes use the long fins for a warmup prior to using the Lunocet and to get more of a full-body workout. My monofin history includes a Wenzel dol-fin, then a Wenzel prototype that was much better but broke when I pushed it too far, then a Waterways Nemo, a Finis Foil, a Waterways carbon Glide hyperfin, then Classic Lunocet/2014 Pro/2015 Pro. So, it's safe to say I have compared many fins! My favorite, by a big margin, is the 2015 Pro. While it easily fits in a small swim bag, it provides thrust that is almost as strong as my Glide. I should note that the Glide is a #5 stiffness carbon fiber fin that is good for about 20 minutes before the numbness and pain are too much to handle. Compared to this sprint fin, the 2015 Lunocet is almost as fast, almost as powerful, but I can swim over an hour with it easily. I do not have access to a Glide with more of a sane stiffness that would be used for dynamic swims, but I think the 2015 would be very close if not better. It's quite close to the carbon Glide I have; surprisingly so considering the difference in size and comfort. The other big difference is in maneuverability- the Glide is somewhat unstable and is hard to keep in a straight line compared to the Lunocet. There is a much greater tendency to sideslip or swim off-canter. This is even more an issue for me, as my spine has a degree of lateral curvature and one of my legs is a little longer than the other, accentuating any form faults. The Lunocet is far more forgiving of this and can track in a straight line, turn, roll, or do just about any other move I think of much more easily. I can swim using a large-amplitude full body undulation, a more efficient mid to lower body undulation, or even just ankle movement. I have found the Lunocet to be very convenient, comfortable and durable. If that wasn't good enough, it is just so attractive to look at! The fin always attracts attention, from young to old. It functions well as an ambassador of finswimming/freediving, prompting people to ask questions about what I'm up to. As the pool often has other swimmers, the soft rubber exterior of the flukes covering the aluminum skeleton is safer than other designs and provides a margin of safety. This has been tested at times, when other pool users disregard the "lap lanes for swimmers only" signs and wander into my lane while I'm swimming. To date, nobody has been injured or complained which is reassuring. Had all of my swims been with a fiberglass/carbon fin or one of aluminum construction, these collisions would have probably had a different outcome. Overall, I can highly recommend the 2015 Lunocet as a quality performance product!
Neat to read what you've been thinking Doc. Thanks for all the thoughts on socks for Philip too... Especially cdavis... As a fellow 1950 model human it's Nice to have you drop in for a visit occasionally.
Philip! One thing to demand from your sock / shoe combo is zero power loss transferring your movements to your fin. If you notice any slippage between foot and shoe try to eliminate it! You can usually snug the closures after the shoe gets wet. AA tells of tightening his on the bottom where the water compresses your feet.
Even pushing off walls your heel can stay in the heel pocket of the shoe if everything is working together.
In the pool I use a brightly colored thin cloth sock... $3 for ten pairs from the girls department at wall mart ¡ They fit real tight and feel "grippy" to me and that's what I'm looking for.
I've messed with the foot bed, arch supports, tongue, heel cup, and the shoe closures on my shoes striving to get that grip of the foot just so.
Philip! One thing to demand from your sock / shoe combo is zero power loss transferring your movements to your fin. If you notice any slippage between foot and shoe try to eliminate it! You can usually snug the closures after the shoe gets wet. AA tells of tightening his on the bottom where the water compresses your feet.
Even pushing off walls your heel can stay in the heel pocket of the shoe if everything is working together.
In the pool I use a brightly colored thin cloth sock... $3 for ten pairs from the girls department at wall mart ¡ They fit real tight and feel "grippy" to me and that's what I'm looking for.
I've messed with the foot bed, arch supports, tongue, heel cup, and the shoe closures on my shoes striving to get that grip of the foot just so.
Here's a video I found on YouTube; I don't know the swimmer. Anyone here?
- Status