2015 LUNOCET PRO

[finSailor]

Due to public request, there you go - a new thread Luno vs. Dol-fin: #1

 

[Mat-T]

@Ted Ciamillo: one more week passed without receiving the refund for my canceled order. Please submit me a proof of wire transfer from your bank or perform the transaction immediately.
Otherwise I will initiate legal actions to claim my rights in due time.

Final update: Success! After countless e-mail complaints, too many broken promises from Ted and quite some desperate postings here, I ultimately managed to get my money back from Ted (today it has been credited to my account)! Thanks to Jeff for taking care.

I still think it is a very interesting product - however, this has been the worst customer experience I ever had with any online order and I prefer to spend my money elsewhere now.

I wish all other still waiting Lunocet customers good luck in finally receiving the fin they ordered long ago or at least get their money refunded.

 

[Apneaddict]

While I am hesitant to post this update (as it seems likely that it will add fuel to the trolls / detractors and re-ignite negative dialogue) , in the interest of transparency I will do so.

In the interest of helping see Luno-fulfillment, I have a list compiled of old, unfulfilled orders from Ted's past customers (NOT UlimateSwimFin.com ) and am actively tracking it.

Based on what I understand of Ted's production timelines right now, barring any unforeseen production issues (which do happen), I am hopeful that they can all be resolved with active shipping #'s within the next 3 weeks.

Next week there should be several fulfilled and I think the remainder will be done thereafter.

If there is a significant change to these timelines, I will provide an update.

If you are unsure if you're on my list or have not yet spoken up, please email me at sales@ultimateswimfin.com so that I can get your shipping info and inquiry.

This is the preferred method of staying on the radar, as opposed to forum posts or PMs.

Here's hoping we can all get beyond the headaches and anxiety and strap on a Lunocet, hold our breath and swim in peace!

It really is a great piece of equipment, otherwise I'd have cut-bait by now... Believe me.

Once everyone waiting has been fulfilled, it will be a new-day for the Lunocet as USF will be the only one taking orders and handling customer $.

On USF, we have a 48 hr active tracking # guarantee or it's free. Sort of like a pizza, but much more enjoyable under water.




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[finSailor]

And where comes the requested replacement/warranty parts in this new schedule?

 

[Apneaddict]

Your replacement vertebrae are also on the list, because yours have a measurable difference in dimension from left to right.


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[Philip Fennell]

While I am hesitant to post this update (as it seems likely that it will add fuel to the trolls / detractors and re-ignite negative dialogue) , in the interest of transparency I will do so.

From the definition in Wikipedia:

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1]extraneous, or off-topicmessages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotionalresponse[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[3]

Whilst I applaud your efforts in getting involved in helping resolve this situation, I hope @Apneaddict that you are not trying to shutdown forum conversation regarding genuine concerns that are entirely relevant to this thread, posted by people who are genuinely concerned either for their own hard earned cash or for others who have been caught up in this unfortunate saga, by trying to brand those who chose to speak up as, the afore mentioned, 'internet trolls' because that would, in itself be A cynical misuse of this forum.

Those who I've been in contact with, who've still had no reply from their recent e-mail, I will encourage to read your recent post and act accordingly.

Then, hopefully I can happily draw my involvement here to a close.

 

[Ichthys]

Appneadict, maybe you're right to be hesitant. And "trolls" and "detractors"is uncalled-for. It may not be good press for the Lunocet, but everyone here has a legitimate gripe with Ciamillo Prototyping. Like it or not that's something you need to square with if you're going to be representing the Lunocet, and demonizing people who have been ****ed over for all practical purposes is not a positive way to approach it. Just remember that you're addressing reasonable people after months/years of waiting and a lot of false/meaningless promises. That doesn't somehow make us the ***hole(s), ok?

I'm heartened by your stated efforts, but I can't help but notice that the element of "I've got you covered but if I missed you contact me" is still there. That in my mind is a very negative thing. I've always held that if Mr. Ciamillo's business woes can't be "repaired" apart from this forum it's a clear sign that the problem remains. That's why I remain anonymous. When someone gets in contact with me apart from this forum is when you have my attention. Ted has my name, my address, my e-mail address, and better than $500 of my hard-earned money. Somehow the notion of an e-mail update never seemed to be of interest to anyone associated with Lunocet... The Lunocet is such a cool idea, that I don't just want one--I want to know I can recommend them to my friends and family. If I can't do that then **** it--let it die with all of the other cool ideas that were approached unrealistically and be reborn in due time by someone willing and capable enough to do it justice.

 

[cdavis]

AA, sorry to put more junk on your back, but the number of orders needs to be addressed. Order numbers suggest that the total number of Lunos ordered (and paid for?) exceeds 1000. The number of unsatisfied customers who have showed up on this forum is a tiny fraction of that. Does that mean that far fewer were ordered? Or that nearly all were delivered(seems unlikely)? Or that the numbers here are just the tip of the iceberg? Some other explanation? Which? Surely Ted has a good idea of how many have deposits he has received.

This is a potentially serious issue. Without resolution, it will always cloud the Luno's reputation and should be addressed fully and openly. If the actual number is small, an argument can be made that Ted is just incompetent to run a business and you have a reasonable chance of cleaning up this mess. If it is large, that is a lot of money and it looks much more like large scale fraud. If the latter, there needs to be a well publicized effort to remedy the situation.

 

[Pan]

God bless Paypal! I had my money back through them!
Considering that Ted's Paypal account has been blocked I am quite sure that they are well aware of the situation and ready to refund customers. Therefore, i suggests everyone who payed with Paypal to file a complain like I did because you will get your money back.
Here is part of the email i received today.

"We have concluded our investigation into your case and have decided in your
favour.

We were able to recover $499.00 USD, and this amount has been credited to
you. Please allow 5 business days for this adjustment to be posted.
If you are due any additional funds, we will make our best effort to
recover the balance from the seller.
If the seller's account has insufficient funds to complete the refund owed
to you, please be assured that we will take appropriate action against the
seller's account, which may include limitation of the seller's account
privileges."

What a relief this is! after 3.5 months of extreme frustration I am finally out of this.
After all I've been through, even if I initially loved the lunocet concept, now I don't want it anymore because I would not be able to recommend it even to my enemy due to the customer care issues. I don't even want to imagine the pain it would be to get it repaired under warranty...@finSailor I feel you!

What's next? I think that I will reinvest my $$$ in a Dol-fin which judging from what I've seen on this forum seems to be very good (if not better than the luno) and most importantly sold by someone who is serious about his business and the customer care.

Good luck to all the people who are still battling! don't give up!

 

[Chipswim]

I'm appreciating a tip of the hat to the design... Even from those who are stepping back for now or staying away till they can rest assured a lunocet for them or their friends will arrive shortly after its ordered. AA and ultimateswimfin.com so far have a perfect record since taking over.

I did just encourage a young man I've coached water skiing since childhood to order a Lunocet of his own. He's been enjoying one of mine. Those thoughts about wanting a positive order experience for him did need to be OK. It's Underway! We'll see.

 

[Chipswim]

I think we are near the end of this order conflict chapter, but there's a point not yet raised: pricing!

Ted's first sub human device was over $10K:

Then under $2K:

My first one was about $1.2k. Now the best ones yet are 500 bucks or is it 400 bucks! He keeps coming down! Why?

There is a revealing thought about a ham and egg breakfast: Who is more committed? The hen or the hog?

Thinking of my Lunocet swim this morning ~~~~~~~ I'm the hen. Ted is the hog! His "ham" is on the line for us.

I really questioned his economic sense of self preservation when he kept lowering his prices with demand for his product already outrunning the rate of production.

I thought it was too soon to prioritize making Lunocet affordable for more swimmers, but that is one of his core intentions.

 

[neurodoc]

I've been reading about Lunocet for quite some time; years really. Coming from a cycling background, I was actually already aware of the ordering issues and also the brilliant designs. I ordered my first Lunocet knowing that I might have a long wait and/or customer service issues, but was willing to take the chance to have something more unique, more biomimetic and potentially better performing. I also enjoy being an "early adopter" and contributing to product development/evolution. I would order another, even with everything that has transpired, because now AA is handling transactions. I had tried several monofins prior to the Lunocet, looking for both speed and biomimetics, but didn't find anything that worked well and held up. I even made two, and ended up with a swimmable fin but nothing special really. I learned there is much more to making a (good) monofin than it possibly looks like there should be! My Waterways fins were great, but I could not have speed and comfort in the same fin apparently. These are some of the reasons that I've stuck by Ted and the Lunocet project-the other is that the thing works really well and I can swim with it without feeling like my feet are being crushed

 

[Apneaddict]

Coming from a cycling background, I was actually already aware of the ordering issues and also the brilliant designs. I ordered my first Lunocet knowing that I might have a long wait and/or customer service issues, but was willing to take the chance to have something more unique, more biomimetic and potentially better performing.

Others didn't however, and therein lies the rub.

I'm trying to do everything I can to help Ted to fulfill these last open orders for his customers.

After that - he's just the factory / my supplier for UltimateSwimFin.com . Thereafter, he'll just have 1 customer... Me!

I think I'll TM a new phrase that I've seen transpire over a few industries now:

"Beware the machinist with an eCommerce website!"

It's a natural tendency to want to sell direct and make max margin... But Henry Ford taught us that there is value in the division of labour.

I'm doing what I can to help HIS paying customers receive what they are owed.


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[Chipswim]

It leads to this:

 

[Ichthys]

...
I'm heartened by your stated efforts, but I can't help but notice that the element of "I've got you covered but if I missed you contact me" is still there. That in my mind is a very negative thing. I've always held that if Mr. Ciamillo's business woes can't be "repaired" apart from this forum it's a clear sign that the problem remains. That's why I remain anonymous. When someone gets in contact with me apart from this forum is when you have my attention. Ted has my name, my address, my e-mail address, and better than $500 of my hard-earned money. Somehow the notion of an e-mail update never seemed to be of interest to anyone associated with Lunocet... The Lunocet is such a cool idea, that I don't just want one--I want to know I can recommend them to my friends and family. If I can't do that then **** it--let it die with all of the other cool ideas that were approached unrealistically and be reborn in due time by someone willing and capable enough to do it justice.

I've had some back-and-forth with Jeff "Apneaddict" Watson since writing the above, and as a result I'd like to correct my statements. I was operating on the assumption that Jeff was representing Ted, and it has been made abundantly clear to me that this is not the case. As I understand it Jeff is representing his own business, and the Lunocet itself as a product he feels is worth supporting, and in the interest of those two, and his own passion for the free-diving community he has undertaken the effort to aid folks who are back-ordered with Ted Ciamillo. I have an enormous amount of respect for that.

Ted Ciamillo is responsible for the woes many of us have been experiencing, as well as a great deal of misinformation. Some may call it being overly-optimistic. I know of no justification for dismissing it so lightly--I think it borders on criminal negligence, whatever his intentions may have been. We've been misled again and again because the objective truth just wasn't the priority. I do try to bear in mind that the task which Ted had set for himself is no small one, and it's obvious that he spread himself incredibly thin. His decision to go it alone was border-line suicidal in effect, and in my view he is lucky to have a very unique product, the support of a number of incredibly patient supporters, and Jeff (Apneaddict), who has apparently been instrumental in transitioning the project from direct, over-selling, to a more responsible sell-as-you-produce, with a guaranteed ship time. I would like to give credit where credit is due, and commend Ted for his part in taking this step. I can't understand why the hell the man didn't/doesn't sit down with a friend, a family member, a secretary... anyone, and pour over any available records/e-mails to match contacts with payments, and cross-reference that with deliveries... it's insane, frankly. It's unintelligent, and that from a man who seems so brilliant in other areas. Maybe it's also just not seen as something that is profitable for the effort... that's not good. However, in the inexplicable absence of this action having the necessary time apportioned to it, I find the steps taken to prevent future issues, and the outside efforts of Jeff Watson to be a necessary and promising step in the right direction for a product with such a sordid history. I am optimistic that the Lunocet has a brighter future as of these changes. I can't respect Ted's treatment of his customers, but his work is undeniably of a very high quality, as from this point forward, as Apneaddict has said, Ted has only one customer--UltimateSwimFin.com

I have revealed my identity to Jeff, in view of the above, and we spoke over the phone today. I've been waiting on a Lunocet Pro 2015 since July 13th of last year. I am told I will be looking at a shipment in the next 3 weeks. That's just fine by me. If anyone has been waiting longer than that you have my blessing to get in contact with Jeff and cut in front of me, as it were. All I would ask is an update, Jeff.

I spoke with Jeff about putting up some numbers to keep folks here apprised of the progress of his efforts with regard to old orders, and Ted's corresponding fulfillment. We may never know from Ted what the real numbers are, but at least we can have an idea of the progress from Jeff's end. I think that would be an important step to restore trust in the Lunocet.

I'm kind of putting a lot of faith in Jeff here, considering my wait, and obviously even I won't know the reality of it until we start to see some results (I have a good impression of Jeff, but I don't know him personally), so let's participate, folks, and let's see some results! I'd encourage everyone here who is waiting on a fin (or a refund) to get in contact with him.

 

[Adler]

19 months,.... I am no longer patient.

Magistrate Court
5000 Jackson Parkway, Suite 230
Jefferson, GA 30549
(706) 387-6356

 

[Marco_W]

It´s a shame for Ted !
Beware of doing buisness with him!
like in past ;in present and in future

 

[Chipswim]

2014 Lunocet Brightz Chip:

 

[Malte_B]

My impression is, nothing has changed. Still huge delays in response to emails. Some few people receive fins or refunds, some others still are optimistic, so new people are tricked into buying, thus keeping up this scam. Classical pyramid sales scheme - and pure fraud.

There is no point in defending Ted just because he is a good inventor; his "business" is ripping off people on purpose - please, guys, stop believing in his good intentions.

 

[Ichthys]

@Apneaddict - How about an update? I realize it's probably not a fast process, but things have been too quiet. How much progress have you been able to make, and is your impression that there are relatively few folks still without their fins holding up?