2015 LUNOCET PRO

[Ichthys]

Does anyone know how many 2014 & 2015 pro's actually made it out into the world? I know this changes nothing, but I'm curious. Reading through this thread it seems there are only 2 2015's so far. That's pretty poor in my opinion. I know there's people out there who placed an order before me (March 17th). But come on Ted, less of the promises & more actual shipping to customers please

In answer to your first question... TED DOES!! ... ...

I think we should consider the very real possibility that Ted is being held captive by Russian/German/Korean agents, with communications closely monitored and sterilized of all revealing status updates, and all fins being shipped to the mother/fatherland (really pretty clever). The answer is clear... try to determine which nationality is behind it and immigrate, working our way up into positions of favor with the government/military in hopes of acquiring a fin! (desperate times call for desperate measures )

 

[Apneaddict]

Ted has used AA's analytical and swimming talents like a canary in a mine.... Jeff gets one of the earliest ships then responds with a thumbs up or down before bigger numbers hit the rest of us.

The post above reveals that AA felt the new peduncle / spring combo was tooooooo stiff and tough. The 2014 test was the opposite. A bunch of either would have been a mess shipped to the field of swimmers. So we've gone through this extended revision.

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I understand the frustrations that those that have been waiting are feeling. It's been a lengthy delay.

For myself, I have been involved with testing / R&D / feedback / reviewing for over a year with the 2014 Classic, 2014 Pro and now the 2015 Pro.

My motives are to help provide input to create the best monofin for my own use, with portability, durability and comfort. If you guys get to benefit too... Bonus!

The Classic swam beautifully with a classic monofin undulation, but didn't provide the thrust (acceleration) we needed for apnea.

The Pro produced a bunch more thrust, the spring (the final one that I used) was a bit on the soft side and wasn't as much of a scalpel through the water as the classic... Much more of a sledgehammer. It worked well with more of a knee-kick.

The new 2015 Pro addresses a bunch of performance areas (several of which were identified after my first Classic swim) and holds great promise. The spring is currently about 30% too stiff for a strong kicker.

I've had experience with the 2014 Pro with a SUPER STIFF (non-flexing) "spring" (which caused so much drag that it ripped the tops off the shoes - felt like swimming through Jell-O and my initial thought was that Ted went 8-steps backwards!) and my current stiff 2015 setup is much, much better by comparison.

The 2014 Pro instantly TRANSFORMED the next day with the softer / flexing spring. I got the thrust, without the drag.

I suspect that the 2015 will do the same with a properly tuned spring.

I have faith that Ted knows the right spring stiffness range now, as HIS personal 2015 spring (different manufacturing process as indicated above) was much different and closer to ideal.

So he has been comparing the new "slotted" springs with his "half-cured spring" to match the stiffness / performance and be able to mass produce them with a consistent process.

I am holding out a lot of promise for this single black rubber piece. It certainly will produce the best Lunocet ever, when I factor in the other development areas and how it is currently performing, even with the "wrong" spring.

Having said that... I'll have to wait and see, just like the rest of you! And I'll be open and relay its performance to all.

 

[Ichthys]

Very interesting to read about the performance differences between springs. Thanks Apneaddict.

 

[Chipswim]

Thank you for the wonderful insight AA!

.... Note to Ted: Save a couple of those super stiff springs! Might be just right for magnum sized swimmers like me.

 

[Philip Fennell]

I've had experience with the 2014 Pro with a SUPER STIFF (non-flexing) "spring" (which caused so much drag that it ripped the tops off the shoes - felt like swimming through Jell-O and my initial thought was that Ted went 8-steps backwards!) and my current stiff 2015 setup is much, much better by comparison.

Hello AA,

Out of curiosity, how does the stiffness of the spring cause increased drag? I can't quite picture in my mind what's going on, is it a function of the angle fin makes, with respect to the direction of travel, during the kick because the fin end's up being angled more like an air-break (or should I say water-break)?


Philip

 

[Apneaddict]

Hi Philip,

You pretty much got it.
You need some articulation in the peduncle to reduce this effect and it will also help provide a nice sinusoidal effect, as well as a return-to-centre snap back.

Without any spring (or too stiff of one), all 3 of these elements are impacted.

With the right spring... It all comes together beautifully.

It is much more complex to design a wing / foil (system) when it is designed to oscillate, as opposed to the fixed-wing of an aircraft. Not to mention that while there are a lot of similarities, hydrodynamics is also quite different from aerodynamics, simply due to the characteristics of the medium involved.

Dolphins have a unique anatomical feature called the ball vertebrae. Much of the action of the peduncle is trying to emulate (bio-mimic) this element. This is a large part why IMHO although over the years the world has seen monofins that LOOK like a dolphin tail (in shape / profile)... Haven't performed well at all in the past and we've largely stuck with fiberglass manatee appendages (hyperfins).

With the solid spring... It would be like the ball vertebrae was surgically fused on poor Flipper.

 

[Philip Fennell]

Dolphins have a unique anatomical feature called the ball vertebrae. Much of the action of the peduncle is trying to emulate (bio-mimic) this element. This is a large part why IMHO although over the years the world has seen monofins that LOOK like a dolphin tail (in shape / profile)... Haven't performed well at all in the past and we've largely stuck with fiberglass manatee appendages (hyperfins).

With the solid spring... It would be like the ball vertebrae was surgically fused on poor Flipper.

Ah, now I see that the 'bio-mimetic' term, that I've seen used in association with the Lunocet has some deeper significance than just superficial similarities to a dolphin's tail. That's really neat, thanks for the reply

 

[Chipswim]

Philip!

Like your question and AA's answer. Can't wait till we spend some swims dialing in our personal flex preferences now that the settings available include the desirable range.

Too soft.... Way too soft I call "fin flop". That feels and acts like wearing no fin at all. The fin gives very little resistance or propulsion.

Too firm..... Way too firm Ted calls "stalling" (like when a wing fails to fly). That is when the fin stays straight out back no matter how hard you undulate causing great resistance but little propulsion.

Perfect flex could be called "euphoria"! Every little motion you make creates propulsion. More effort is promptly rewarded with lots more propulsion!

The best set up works great when you want to be efficient AND when you want to go fast.

Finding that magic euphoric Goldy Locks flex = propulsion pattern and the exhilaration of swimming better than before has taken some sweet time for our Lunocets. To put our wait in perspective, however, I'd say all fins prior to this one and those that come after have been part of the same search. There's just that nagging little thought that there is always more to be gained.....

 

[Philip Fennell]

The Pro produced a bunch more thrust, the spring (the final one that I used) was a bit on the soft side and wasn't as much of a scalpel through the water as the classic... Much more of a sledgehammer. It worked well with more of a knee-kick.

AA,

From what I've been taught so far, and I'm still early days with my technique, the monofining action should be done with legs as straight as possible, every thing comes from the set-up at the shoulder and then downwards to the hip action (flexibility in the back is key) but legs kept straight and I've been told that if I think my legs are straight then try harder because they probably aren't straight enough.

From your experience to-date, do you think that the Lunocet changes this at all? Is there anything inherent in its design that will lead to the development of a specific style of action?


Philip

 

[Chipswim]

AA is an example to study and imitate.

Kars does a great job of describing, encouraging, expressing a stroke so good it works with no fin. Fondue and Revan are great in that way too. Their writing and videos will get you going towards perfection.

I come from the opposite end of the spectrum. Imagine an earthworm swimming... add 120 kilos till he's the diameter of a barrel and you've pretty much got the picture.

The reason I raise this when you've asked such a beautiful question is that my Lunocet forgives me. I strap it on and off I go!

Sure you can continuously improve but most any swimmer comfortable under the water will have a great experience on the first attempt.

Photo of my dainty self:

 

[neurodoc]

I now have a live tracking number and should receive my 2015 Lunocet tomorrow. I know others were shipped along with mine, though I do not know whose. It seems like enough issues have been ironed out and fins are shipping now! I will post something when I get mine.

 

[neurodoc]

AA,

From what I've been taught so far, and I'm still early days with my technique, the monofining action should be done with legs as straight as possible, every thing comes from the set-up at the shoulder and then downwards to the hip action (flexibility in the back is key) but legs kept straight and I've been told that if I think my legs are straight then try harder because they probably aren't straight enough.

From your experience to-date, do you think that the Lunocet changes this at all? Is there anything inherent in its design that will lead to the development of a specific style of action?


Philip

Hi Philip-I've also been swimming with the Lunocet quite some time, as well as other fins (FINIS Foil, Waterways Nemo, Waterways Glide). It's taken me a long time to build up my dolphin kick technique, but I can say that the Lunocet works best with good undulation/straight leg technique. It does, like Glide fins, also work well with a knee-based/stiff back kick. This isn't as "correct" or as pretty, but will move you through the water pretty well too! Some awe-inspiring swims have been done with a less than stellar looking technique. I always work to improve mine but enjoy it all the same no matter how it happens that day. The Lunocet works better with an ankle-only technique than a Glide fin does, in my opinion. It seems to be a pretty forgiving fin overall; when I go back to the Glide I find it harder to control.

 

[Chipswim]

I now have a live tracking number and should receive my 2015 Lunocet tomorrow. I know others were shipped along with mine, though I do not know whose. It seems like enough issues have been ironed out and fins are shipping now! I will post something when I get mine.

Looking forward to the instant of arrival on one of your porches.... When my exoed 2014 Luno goes from futuristic to historical.

This last week I've been attempting to imitate one of the new features (absolute flex limit) with the fin I have.

Observing the flex wear pattern now visible on the exo spring ramp I realized that even set up very stiff it was frequently flexing a lot more than I think is ideal. So I made a block or limit to flex on the power side of the stroke. This would imitate the limit built into the central vertebrae of the 2015 Lunocets which I read are flying to some of you today and swimming tomorrow. I really liked the effect..... More punch! My best swimming set up so far.

It's remarkable how much power and therefore tendency to flex a fin our swimming strokes produce.

Previously the spring has had to provide:

1. Snap back to center between strokes.

2. A life-like feeling resistance to flex.

3. An eventual limit to the peduncle flex.

With function number three transferred to the green link in the photo the spring only has to perform jobs one and two = much less complexity and greater likelihood of a forgiving, successful, and durable device.

These are some of the features I'll be watching for in your impressions as you actually begin receiving and swimming your new fins.

Safety wise... I'm imagining a 2015 Luno with no spring at all would swim well enough to get you home.

On the cautionary side it may not be good to jump the absolutely flex limited Lunos off of walls???? That might be too much force focused on the limiting mechanism. Your impressions about that will be very interesting as well.

Oh! Once the peduncle hits the stops the flukes themselves come to life!!!! I know Ted is sending his best designed flukes to date. That should secure the performance to get this thing really moving ahead.

 

[Apneaddict]

We will see!

 

[neurodoc]

mine is on my porch right at this instant. I am still at work, however!! 30 minutes away. So close but not yet

 

[Chipswim]

Show off your new fins!!!!

 

[neurodoc]

I was impressed with the Lunocet classic, and thought the 14 Pro was as pretty as a fin could get. I am mistaken! the 2015 Pro is even prettier/sleeker/better detailed. It arrived nicely boxed and securely packed, and is significantly lighter than the 14 Pro as well. Gorgeous fin. See for yourself. I will be swimming with it tomorrow afternoon

 

[neurodoc]

First brief swimming impressions: The flukes perform very much like a combination of the classic and 14 pro; they are the size of the pro but flexible like the classic. This results in more power/thrust than the 14pro in my opinion. The decreased weight is noticeable as the fin feels very light on the feet in the water. In fact, with a pair of 2.5mm fin socks stuffed into the shoes, it appears to be very close to neutrally buoyant in pool water. I found the fin to feel very smooth and fast; more so than the previous two versions even. I did not time any swims or attempt any significant distance as it takes me some time swimming to get used to a fin and find its sweet spot, so these are just my impressions. With this fin, it may not take long to get used to it! It feels "more balanced" than all my other fins. Like the spring power and flukes perfectly match my body; not too much resistance or too little. I found it very easy to accelerate with this version. Truly a beautiful and powerful fin!

 

[Chipswim]

Sounds great Doc! Congrats to Ted too!

Struck by the beauty of the lunos... Your just assembled photo is a nice one... I realize the new peduncle is only an inch longer but that feature really jumped out in the photo.

Seems that exact distance trailing behind our feet is an interesting variable. I've tried zero trailing distance.... That didn't work at all ¡

Moving back by extending the peduncle is like using a higher gear ratio.... More forward motion for the same rpms..... Bigger flukes= some of that same effect. Should be good as long as we generate enough power to drive the system.

Glad to read your positive impression of acceleration! That is a wonderful feeling coming from your fin.... Remembering that AA wanted more of that feeling in his reviews of earlier models.

Looking forward to reading about lots more arrivals!

 

[marginatus]

This has been very quiet...
@Ted Ciamillo, all issues sorted?