Scott, that is the most sensible post I've seen on this topic thus far!,Get yourself on the committee sir!!
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BSA MCZ News & Discussion
- Thread starterBSA
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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A voice of reason - very well said mate - couldn't agree more with you.
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At long blooming last somebody spoke (or wrote) some sense. Well done Scott. Word.
It would seem the ,until now silent "vast majority" have spoken , but probably not in as many words as the "vociferous minority" !!!!!! Do fish know if they have been harpooned in an "ethically and sustainable ,blah, blah ,"way ?
Wilson, you are a credit to the spearo community and that sums it up nicely for any a troll. Nice, simple and more diving less fluff.
Seriously, most of us really are are pretty f'in intelligent with a decent education and jobs across the spectrum with enough War and Peace b0llock$ left back in the office or heaven forbid at home. Go dive.This class war/morals war is pure cancer in the community.
UK spearfishing today is well balanced with a mature following generally looking out for one another, understanding you are not born ready to know it all and never will, therefore guiding new entrants on the finer points of a good catch, size limits, and any photographic bullsh!tting reality.
99% of new spearos or outsiders could not give a flying pig whether there is a competitive spearfishing scene.
They fancy shooting a fish with a spear, they get some kit, they stumble in, they shoot some starter fish, they bump into one of us, they learn, they improve, they become another spearo in the community.
Thats it.
No fluff, just human nature, e.g. I really like this activity, what help or tips do you have for me to get my next best fish and continue enjoying this individual passion we all have for spearfishing.
I really am very pleased to have bumped into a lot of you all over the coastline in my UK spearo chapter, socially or competitively!
Unfortunately with the numbers growing (and natural discretion!) its getting harder to be face to face and make a true keyboardless respectful spearo mate but thats where its at.
How great it felt getting involved with a handful of top guys in Dorset all those years ago, standing inside Portland Oceaneering where we were only interested in feeding off the positivity and camaraderie of a shared passion.
Whether it be BSA, club or informal gathering, get amongst it, get face to face so the active grapevine can tell who you really are and stuff all the fluff in the trash can as its costing YOU dive time.
If not...............the majority of us could not give a flying pig :t
The more things change the more they stay the sameMr X...nothings changed in my absence then
Same old, same old eh. Would appreciate your views on this sometime, or would that be politically incorrect ?.
The correspondence has been friendly and respectful, this is simply a debate.
I already summarized my point of view earlier in the thread (not a fan of competitive spearing but see no need to deprive others that are, united we stand, etc.). Cards on the table: I guess I'd like to see competitive spearing die out naturally due to lack of interest (in competition, not spearing). But commercial fishing is the real problem - the volumes there are vast. Debate is good. Debate is healthy. And I welcome & enjoy your input - not sure this is the thread for it but whoever created it put "discussion" in the title, so presumably that is what they wanted & expected.
I'd estimate the number of active spearos in the UK at less than 500 - perhaps less than 300 (perhaps less than 200).
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None taken. Fair point. Probably not - I expect regular readers have a reasonable idea of my perspective. My views are fluid and can & do change. I did once state my position with regard to American politics on one thread & that I think it unwise to vote Labour or Green Party (England & Wales but not Scotland) because of their anti-hunting stance.
If you were a member of, say, PETA (search the forum for more on that!) or some anti-hunting organization, forum members might consider the claim of "ethical organisation" to be highly inaccurate. I recall that there is a marine conservation charity - which naturally appealed to a number of forum members - that caused some debate a year or two ago (something Shepherd?) - perhaps best not to bring that one up again.
Tree hugging hot head , whatever next.
How dare I have an opinion contrary to some others as regards 'competitons' and the contradiction offered by the BSA in condoning, supporting and facilitating these public spectacles.
So, in effect you condone the 'comps' and feel that they do offer a positive message when attempting to ' secure the safety of spearing in the uk' ?.
I'm not arguing that the BSA don't represent and do some good work, never have I.
I also need to high five / back slap and congratulate you on stating the 'bleedin obvious' whilst avoiding the issue altogether.
Y
Yeti
Guest
I personally don’t understand the debate with all this ‘spearfishing is ethical’ but ‘spearfishing comps aren’t . They both involve shooting fish for crying out loud! in a sustainable manner, and equally ethical?? as the net result is they get selected by an individual, and what’s more they go on a plate!?!
Could it be argued that a spearo 'selling' their catch is unethical ??? and just adding to the commercial problem?.....but that coming from someone who enjoys it as a hobby and doesn't have to rely on it for a living, hmmm? It may be an opinion but stating that as fact just makes me sound like a sanctimonious tw@t (which my friends will confirm....but it doesn’t make me a bad person!)
Some simple questions:
Do you dive alone?
Yes? – great for keeping your catch an ethical secret but oh ‘the utter incomprehension of the abhorrently selfish behaviour of the spero diving alone!’. What about the family and friends you leave behind if you drown, and the cost and ‘public spectacle’ you create whilst they try and find you or recover your body.
No? – great for safer diving but when you get out do you and your buddies not compare your catch and talk about the how’s and whys and where’s (just minus the prize?)
Do you proudly show your catch to friends or family?
Yes? – oh my word! It is by nature, utterly indefensible and contradicts all that spearfishing should stand for to be proud of putting food on the table, if your goal is to allow spearfishing to continue in the UK. It can be seen why many might consider the spearfisherman hypocritical and contradictory in their views on sustainable, ethical spear fishing.
No? – Fantastic! People can sleep soundly knowing that the despatching and preparing of catch is sanitised and done behind closed doors so as not to offend anyone’s sensibilities with all that blood and mess, and they can happily cook it safe in the knowledge that they played no part in its contribution towards making a turd other than cooking it and stuffing it in their cake hole!
Do you slide in and out of the water elusively or under the cover of darkness so you don’t get seen and upset anyone with dead fish and spearguns?
Yes? – hurrah! No traumatised inquisitive children or public seeing how fish become ‘fingers’, and phew! thankfully the only people that see you from afar don’t get chance to approach you and talk about what you are doing sensibly, and just assume you are doing something elicit like poaching.
No? – That’s a shame as any aspect of killing fish really has no place anywhere in publicly accessible areas, unless they are suffocated on ice and arranged nicely on supermarket fish counters. Publicly active Spearfishermen (sorry spearfisherpeople) discussing ethical spearfishing with anyone interested or spectating is like NASA promoting space travel or telling folk the Earth is round... - the hypocrisy is quite frankly laughable as well as being acutely embarrassing for many.
Do you drive an internal combustion engine powered vehicle to your dive sites or do you use a bicycle or walk?
.........To be honest I’m bored and can’t be bothered to continue with this pishy drivel hogwash.
I was at a loose end and had time to kill (new ethical debate? - killing time?)......Suppose the point is that perhaps spearfishing competitions are in essence sustainable and ethical fishing. They are potentially a great way of educating people in the public arena (if conducted appropriately) and should be used to involve more environmentally or ecologically interested parties. They should not be driven underground by the view that what spearos do and how they behave in groups (numbering more than one!) is any different than that of the normal activity but with the exception of a few prizes (and getting blootered on anything alcholic they can get their grubby mits on). In reality you could remove the prizes and call it a ‘meet’ or ‘gathering’, but no doubt someone would declare it an unlawful assembly! :head
Could it be argued that a spearo 'selling' their catch is unethical ??? and just adding to the commercial problem?.....but that coming from someone who enjoys it as a hobby and doesn't have to rely on it for a living, hmmm? It may be an opinion but stating that as fact just makes me sound like a sanctimonious tw@t (which my friends will confirm....but it doesn’t make me a bad person!)
Some simple questions:
Do you dive alone?
Yes? – great for keeping your catch an ethical secret but oh ‘the utter incomprehension of the abhorrently selfish behaviour of the spero diving alone!’. What about the family and friends you leave behind if you drown, and the cost and ‘public spectacle’ you create whilst they try and find you or recover your body.
No? – great for safer diving but when you get out do you and your buddies not compare your catch and talk about the how’s and whys and where’s (just minus the prize?)
Do you proudly show your catch to friends or family?
Yes? – oh my word! It is by nature, utterly indefensible and contradicts all that spearfishing should stand for to be proud of putting food on the table, if your goal is to allow spearfishing to continue in the UK. It can be seen why many might consider the spearfisherman hypocritical and contradictory in their views on sustainable, ethical spear fishing.
No? – Fantastic! People can sleep soundly knowing that the despatching and preparing of catch is sanitised and done behind closed doors so as not to offend anyone’s sensibilities with all that blood and mess, and they can happily cook it safe in the knowledge that they played no part in its contribution towards making a turd other than cooking it and stuffing it in their cake hole!
Do you slide in and out of the water elusively or under the cover of darkness so you don’t get seen and upset anyone with dead fish and spearguns?
Yes? – hurrah! No traumatised inquisitive children or public seeing how fish become ‘fingers’, and phew! thankfully the only people that see you from afar don’t get chance to approach you and talk about what you are doing sensibly, and just assume you are doing something elicit like poaching.
No? – That’s a shame as any aspect of killing fish really has no place anywhere in publicly accessible areas, unless they are suffocated on ice and arranged nicely on supermarket fish counters. Publicly active Spearfishermen (sorry spearfisherpeople) discussing ethical spearfishing with anyone interested or spectating is like NASA promoting space travel or telling folk the Earth is round... - the hypocrisy is quite frankly laughable as well as being acutely embarrassing for many.
Do you drive an internal combustion engine powered vehicle to your dive sites or do you use a bicycle or walk?
.........To be honest I’m bored and can’t be bothered to continue with this pishy drivel hogwash.
I was at a loose end and had time to kill (new ethical debate? - killing time?)......Suppose the point is that perhaps spearfishing competitions are in essence sustainable and ethical fishing. They are potentially a great way of educating people in the public arena (if conducted appropriately) and should be used to involve more environmentally or ecologically interested parties. They should not be driven underground by the view that what spearos do and how they behave in groups (numbering more than one!) is any different than that of the normal activity but with the exception of a few prizes (and getting blootered on anything alcholic they can get their grubby mits on). In reality you could remove the prizes and call it a ‘meet’ or ‘gathering’, but no doubt someone would declare it an unlawful assembly! :head
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A
artiz
Guest
Scottwilson’s well supported comment regarding ‘working together in a common goal of securing the future of spearfishing in the UK’ is the ‘game changer’… well said Scott, you’ve got my support too.
‘Tree hugging ways’ however is of little help to achieve that goal?
Many of us have perspectives which are driven by disappointment and sometimes disgust regarding excessive and unsustainable hunting practices which seems easily transferred to a wider public perception of spearfishing… and also because regulation and scrutiny are now clearly on their way via MCZ’s etc… see BSA comments above!
In recent months giant steps forward have been made and mainly by the BSA themselves but also many of us have now recognised that we need to be a bit more ethical, thoughtful and proactive about the future of spearfishing in the UK and that is a major step forward… and not before time?
I’m with Mr X I’m ‘OK’ with competitive spearing making its ‘own way’… either forward or into decline. However for it to take some form of precedence or importance regarding the public ‘face’ of the BSA (= spearfishing in the UK) is very unhelpful and naive?
If we are ‘all’ able to put aside differences in the name of securing a future for spearfishing in the UK then we should ‘all’ join the BSA under one official body who continues to represent our combined but disparate interests where it counts?
I just can’t even think about being stopped from spearfishing and even worse what about my 15 year old son???
For me the BSA needs to move a little further away from its overwhelming affiliation to competitive spearing and move a little more left towards a sustainable and ethical perspective (Tree hugging?) thereby perhaps attracting membership from more part-timers, youngsters and old blokes like me… we all need representation too… maybe there are 2000 out there which would make official/ethical BSA training a productive way forward? Can't go wrong when setting standards... and it may attract funding?
Productive Discussion?
‘Tree hugging ways’ however is of little help to achieve that goal?
Many of us have perspectives which are driven by disappointment and sometimes disgust regarding excessive and unsustainable hunting practices which seems easily transferred to a wider public perception of spearfishing… and also because regulation and scrutiny are now clearly on their way via MCZ’s etc… see BSA comments above!
In recent months giant steps forward have been made and mainly by the BSA themselves but also many of us have now recognised that we need to be a bit more ethical, thoughtful and proactive about the future of spearfishing in the UK and that is a major step forward… and not before time?
I’m with Mr X I’m ‘OK’ with competitive spearing making its ‘own way’… either forward or into decline. However for it to take some form of precedence or importance regarding the public ‘face’ of the BSA (= spearfishing in the UK) is very unhelpful and naive?
If we are ‘all’ able to put aside differences in the name of securing a future for spearfishing in the UK then we should ‘all’ join the BSA under one official body who continues to represent our combined but disparate interests where it counts?
I just can’t even think about being stopped from spearfishing and even worse what about my 15 year old son???
For me the BSA needs to move a little further away from its overwhelming affiliation to competitive spearing and move a little more left towards a sustainable and ethical perspective (Tree hugging?) thereby perhaps attracting membership from more part-timers, youngsters and old blokes like me… we all need representation too… maybe there are 2000 out there which would make official/ethical BSA training a productive way forward? Can't go wrong when setting standards... and it may attract funding?
Productive Discussion?
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Y
Yeti
Guest
Aye but be very very careful with these words. As well meaning an intention these might imply from an organising point of view, they can rapidly be turned into currency......and that can be a rather dangerous road to go down, not to mention once something is quantified in such a way these things become very very very easy to legislate and 'control'......even turned into the usual 'gravy train'...........not saying it will, but I've seen a lot of examples that would suggest it's entirely possible. :waterwork