Guernsey summer fishing

[Old Man Dave]

Marcel
In Deeperblue there are many, many threads on this topic, with many and diverse views. I’ve been here before. I don’t want to go too far down this road of snorkel (free) diving versus tanks (scuba) but I’d just like to state a few facts.
My catch of yesterday was good for me (18 fish) and John, despite being a very experienced scuba flatfish diver, “only” got 6 fish. I have spent nearly 40 years diving around Guernsey. For most of that time I’ve worked at part time commercial fishing by diving. I’ve had a commercial fishing license and declared my fish, paid my taxes etc. Most of my catch has been flatfish. I am known locally as “the flatfish diver”. I believe that I’ve caught more flatfish than any other diver and probably more than most of the rest put together. I’ve retired from commercial fishing this year but I remain the best there is. I say this not out of bravado but as fact.
Making catches like yesterdays takes years of experience, knowledge and skill. If you think you can strap on a tank and do it then try. You’ll be disappointed.
Tales of “30 soles” etc are fishermen’s tales. Until 3 years ago my best day was 8 soles. Since then there have been 2 exceptional sole years and my 30+ year record of 8 is now 17 soles in a day. A day is minimum of 3x12 L tanks. But this is the best catch commercially by the best diver in 40 years fishing. By contrast a very average day for a commercial inshore netter is 100+ soles.
I’ve known people who are good scuba divers who haven’t caught more than a handful of flatfish in 10 years despite trying very hard. Once you start on diving for the more difficult flatfish like brill you are talking offshore banks, deep water and mega tides – that’s why the gravel banks are there. You might know of people who can freedive these banks but they would be one in a million, literally. The few others who might try would end up in trouble, even dead.
So to sum up; don’t expand from what I can catch to assume that it’s easy because I use tanks or that all tank divers can make these catches. They can’t and they don’t.
I love free diving too. I’ve caught over 30 bass this year, all with the speargun and definitely not with the tanks. Last snorkel dive I did for flats I got 13 plaice. However, if I want to fill my freezer with brill it would take me years and years of freediving to maybe get one or two if I was lucky. Greatly satisfying as this would be it’s not practical. Similarly free diving for scallops is impractical in Guernsey but scuba puts them on your plate and is bloody good fun too.
Get away from the idea that scuba fishing is easy and is somehow cheating and that free diving is some divine method. Free divers can over fished as much as scuba divers can but both pale into insignificance when compared to other fishing methods. We selectively take fish without over fishing or destroying their habitat or polluting their environment. Take the moral high ground as a diver-fisherman (free and scuba) and fight for preservation of fish stock against anyone and any thing that threatens our enjoyment and way of life. Live and let live. Do your own thing and as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone, enjoy it.
Dave

 

[beardy241]

Thanks Dave and Ed for your feedback.

I tip my hat to you Dave with regards your diving career and do appreciate that tank diving is not a walk in the park.

I hear what your saying and do agree. I have heard that there are commercial boats that exploit the bass spawning grounds to west of the Island to the tune of many tons a day - this outrages me.

I have long held the desire to see a marine reserve established in the Bailiwick. I believe there's a place up in Scotland where they've done it. The fishermen weren't impressed to begin with but now the protected waters are TEEMING with fish and the bounty of that is of course spilling into unprotected waters and benefitting the local fishermen.

My late Father-in-law was a safari guide in southern Africa. During his career he was active in the promotion of wildlife protection and was ashamed of the historical decimation of Africa's incredible wild heritage. (My uncle tells the two century old story of the wildebeest rut that pinned down a family and their wagons against a kopjes (rock outcrop) for THREE DAYS! as the millions of animals just kept running by.)

I feel the same about the oceans. Man has limited vision beneath the waves and so what is out of sight is out of mind. We can't see what damage is being done and soon it may well be too late. (look at the North Sea).

What do you chaps think to the feasibility of creating a marine reserve locally? Maybe just a few miles of coastline. Do you think that there would be political will for this??

with kind regards

Marcel

 

[portinfer]

There is one I think - it is to the north of Lihou....

 

[gbo200]

Re: Guernsey summer fishing - Boat trip Saturday?

Just wondere if anyone was interested in heading out early early on Saturday on Chatty with me. The tides are right to leave at or just after sunrise; we could make it anywhere within reason including Sark or Herm. I would appreciate some good local knowledge on board. I believe Marcel is in already but if any others would like to come along you are welcome. Post a note here.

See you tomorrow hopefully!

g.

 

[beardy241]

Yep, I'm in!

Out the harbour by 6am! Sark sounds like a great idea. Did the coastal tour the other year where the boat goes into all the nooks and crannies and it was awesome!! Highly reccommended. Have wanted to dive around there ever since.

Does anyone know if there's any fishing restrictions??

[m]

 

[Old Man Dave]

Sorry boys. Spearfishing is banned in sark waters. As is taking anything by diving, eg scallops, crabs etc.
By the way some of the sark fishermen carry shotguns on board their boats.
Enjoy the scenary, take some pictures but don't touch. :ban
Dave

 

[beardy241]

thanks for the advice / notice. !!

 

[Alison]

By the way some of the sark fishermen carry shotguns on board their boats.

But its fine to shoot them there divers!! Go get em Floyd!!

 

[Old Man Dave]

There doesn’t seem to have been much happening of late. My freezer’s full of bass, my relatives are full of bass and my friends are full of bass, plus I’ve sold a few as well. Ed says that I’m “bassed out” and in truth I think that he is as well.
Now I’m no longer commercial diving for flatfish that avenue is somewhat closed as well, especially following last weekend’s success. The prospect of snorkelling for a few flats is in the offing and I’m intrigued by night diving for bass.
However, have a little project in mind, which might lead to a few large bass i.e. bigger than this seasons PB of 8.5 lb. This weekend looked good but now the weather forecast looks dodgy so wait and see.
With this in mind and being on holiday, I thought that a bit of practice was called for.
Went east coast an hour after low tide. Biggish spring and a calm sea gave vis up to 25ft. Only saw 3 bass but got 2 of them. First fish was in the shallows as soon as I went in. I let it pass, as it was smallish. Tried a reef up tide but with the spring tide it was too shallow, as in no water i.e. dry.
Used the tide to steam on down to a little bay and as I slowed and rounded the corner out of the tide I came face to face with a nice bass. It was hiding in the bootlace in about 3ft of water waiting to ambush small fish swept in by the tide. Bent my wrist to get a better angle and took the quick reflex shot, at ¾ head on, from 1ft range. Aimed at the head but was ½ inch out and neatly speared it through the shoulder. For a second I thought I’d missed, as a bass zoomed off, but it was another one behind the one I got. Hadn’t seen that one. Finished off the bass with a knife under the gills into the spine while resting on the nearby shallow reef. While stringing it I looked up to see 2 curious canoeists watching me. Waved my empty gun at them as a friendly gesture and they left.
Moved into the shallow bay and into stealth mode. Almost immediately I saw a bass moving over a sandy bottom in about 4ft of water. It hadn’t seen me but there was no cover. At 6ft range and square on I took the long shot, aiming dead centre. As most of my fishing is by ambush I don’t use a long-range gun. Six foot is about max but my aim was true and the spear transfixed the fish just enough for the flopper to toggle.
Spent another half hour in some bootlace over a line of reefs. This is nearly always a good area but I’m usually there on neaps. Whether it was the tide or some other factor I don’t know but whatever, the bass weren’t home.
Time to head home. Weighed the fish. They went 4lb and 4.5lb.
Another nice day.
Dave

 

[Old Man Dave]

Alison
Sarks a funny place. They have a feudal government, no cars and no income tax. Sarkees make the Hillbillies in "Deliverance" look civilised.
Shotgun carrying I speak of from personal experience.
Dave

 

[beardy241]

Night-dives for Bass are excellent. Preferably get a torch like the Sun. Dazzle 'em into submission! They look really pretty in the torch light when there's good vis too!

 

[portinfer]

Nice bass Dave - looks like my high water spot

George - been stacked out this week so have only been in the water once (just now - for a social dive with my cousin [might have to agree with Dave's opinion about women and fish ]) - can't make it tomorrow as have family birthday obligations - next week looks good early on - have a good one and avoid any shotguns - I have also heard they are good at throwing knives into bulkheads....

Heard that the biggest bass are in Alderney ... any trips to be planned for Alderney Maybe a weekend trip to coincide with Alderney Week ? Carnage in the water ... carnage on the land ...!

Cheers
Ed

 

[Old Man Dave]

In line with my philosophy of trying to add variety to my diving I went snorkelling for flatfish today.
Yesterday I did manage another new venture but I’m waiting for pic’s on that one. So back to today (24/7/05).
Went west coast bay, which is known to hold a few flats. Unfortunately it held more than its fair share of windsurfers. Ed was with me and he had a SMB but I didn’t – Tut, Tut!
There was a strong (force 5?) wind blowing across the bay making for choppy conditions. Hard to keep in touch and hard to keep a look out. However, vis was still good as there was little swell.
One of the biggest tides of the year meant that as we went in an hour before low, it was low, like seriously low. This was part of the plan as I’ve found flatfish will stay put once buried and will end up in water as shallow as 3ft on a mega low tide. I planned to search such an area but with the prospect of a windsurfer in my ear I decided not and we crossed some reef to the 10ft deep edge of the sand, away from danger.
Began my search. I work about 20-30 s down but only 15-30s recovery. I find you need a rhythm and longer dives and consequently longer recovery not as effective. The object is to swim near the seabed and prod “lumps” looking for buried flats. What you need is stamina and good ears not mega breath hold and the “eyes of the hawk”. Most important is experience. I’m afraid flattying is easier when you’ve caught a few but that makes it a “chicken and egg” situation. You need experience to catch them but unless you’ve caught some you don’t have experience. The first few 1000's are the hardest. Bet it doesn't take Ed that long though - but not just yet!
To cut a long story short, after nearly 3 hours, I managed 2 soles and 1 plaice, all smallish. All had been very well buried and all had been found by prodding suspicious lumps. I don't think I missed much so looks like not many flats inshore at present. However, despite this, am planning to try again in another spot in a day or two. Keep you all posted.
So only a semi successful day, today, catch wise but as always an enjoyable one.
Dave

 

[beardy241]

Didn't make Sark in the end - scabby weather put us off. We did however make Saddle Rock round the back of Herm. MAJOR spring tides on full flood made for some interesting times and adventure around the rock!!! In-shore George spiked a modest Pollack and we all came home happy.

 

[gbo200]

Hi Guys,

Yes an excellent trip to Herm getting washed about in the current - great fun. Highlight was the backeddy bringing us back to the Saddle Rock, seeing 100s of tiny pollock, then back out into the current, diving to 15m and getting washed along the bottom at at least 5 knots.

Dave - we night dive for flatties, they come to the surface and are plain as day. Our best luck has also been after a low tide. Great fun!

I would be into a trip to Alderney as I have never taken the boat there.

One other trip may be in order first:

Hi you guys in Guernsey
Just to let you know we are holding the 3rd Open Bass Spearfishing
Competition here in Jersey on Sunday 7th August - it would be nice to see
some of you over for it - chances are some of the Jersey guys will only be
too happy to put some of you up (you may have to travel back on the Monday
which may mean taking a day or morning off work) - details will follow in
the next few days but if any of you are interested please let me know
Cheers
Neil
Apnea (Jersey) Limited

I have checked the tides and the highs are at 8:59 and 21:06 meaning we could leave first thing in the morning and come back in the evening. I have asked Neil for more information.

Check my post on current diving on the general board.

L8er!

g.

 

[Old Man Dave]

I'm interested to hear about night diving for flatfish.
Diving at night for flatfish, well principally soles, isn't new. Dave Fletcher RIP (of Fletchersport fame) used to catch soles by snorkelling at night over 40 years ago. Personally I've not got much experience of it.
I know that soles are vertually totally nocternal. Only about 1 in 100 soles that I catch in daylight are uncovered all the rest are deeply buried. As far as I know plaice and especially brill and turbot are all day feeders. However all are present both day and night, in other words they don't migrate inshore/offshore dependant on light.
By day plaice are usually 1 in 5 to 1 in 10 uncoverd, most therefore being buried. All brill are uncovered and don't bury at all and turbot are about 2 out of 3 buried. This is further complicated by observations being mainly at slackish tide. Plaice seem to move more when the tide runs and probably other flatfish do too.
A few (5/6) years ago a couple of the part time commercial scuba flatfish divers took to diving offshore, from a boat, at night. They made some good catches and as I understend were finding flatfish (mainly brill, turbot and ray) by the light reflecting from their eyes. Apparently you can tell what sort of fish by the type and colour of "cat's eye" reflection. It didn't prove viable but they made some good catches and scared themselves sh*tless as well.
I find that I make good catches in daylight and doubt wether I would catch more at night. Maybe soles being uncovered and active would lead to seeing more but there again you would cover a lot less seabed scanning with only a torch at night. I'm not sure if you would see any difference in catching plaice and I guess most if not all would be buried and so probably you'd catch less.
Overall I think night diving is just another method (as is scuba) and enjoyment is what it's about not how many fish you catch. However, you never know it all and I'm always keen to give things a go. That's how to learn.
Talking of learning I'd be interested on comments from night divers re sole/plaice, uncovered/buried and whether their eyes are different colours, if they are like cats eyes? Marcel and George you seem like the guys who'd know?
In the interest of the new broader based Old Man Dave I think I got to give this a go. Maybe one night soon I'll try for a bass in the weed and some flats on the sand. Now where at me torch?
Dave :hmm

 

[gbo200]

Hey Dave,

You are welcome to join us anytime. We are due to a night mission soon. Regarding thier eyes, I must admit, I am usually too excited just to see a fish, and busy getting my knife out and attempting to hit it perfectly to check what colour and shape its eyes are. I save that for girls in bars.

Let's hook up sometime. What do you think about a trip to Jersey for that comp?

g.

 

[gbo200]

Hey guys here is the poster for the Jersey competition.

gbo

 

[Old Man Dave]

George
Thanks for the reply and offer.Girls in bars? Sorry my memories not that good. About to become a grand dad though. "You've got baby blue eyes" is about to take on a whole new meaning!
Re night dives, yeh I'm up for that . Probably not 'till next week though. Keep in touch and hopefully it'll happen.
Re Jersey competition, 'fraid I no longer do that. Not against anyone else doing it but "been there, done that, got the Tee shirt"! Old Man Dave is undefeated Guernsey spearo champ with about a zillion trophies, press cuttings, photo's,record cert's etc to prove it. However, that was my previous life and like many others I outgrew it. If you've never done comp's, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. They're usually very friendly affairs and a great experience. I'm glad I was on the cicuit for a few years and I enjoyed it at the time but like I said I've now gone down a different path.
Discovered today that the mono-trotters have been pasting the out side of Rousse and doing very well for plaice (up to 6lb). That's good and bad as it means they're in but also they're all being caught. Ed and I plan to try to get our share tomorrow - fingers crossed. That's a daytime low water effort if the weather holds.
This weekend I hope to get a few more flats with the tanks as still got some room in the freezer. While I'm out in my boat going to lay just a few hooks (50) for bream. Apparently numbers have been caught this past week. Future plans will feature some attempts to spear a few of the little blighters.
I've never caught one with a speargun!
For anyone sad enough to be interested in following my recent exploits, still haven't got photo's of last weekend "new venture" so hold your breath a bit longer.
Regards to you all,
Dave

 

[Old Man Dave]

Ed and I did make it in tonight to look for a few flatfish. Pete and Tim also turned up for a dive, so in the end it was a group effort.
Went in west coast to one of my “inside” patches. The tide is neaping hard and not low ‘til 7pm so not venturing too far and thus not having to work too deep. Bit overcast and what sun did peep through was setting towards the horizon. Slight swell but apart from a bit of muck in the shallows the viz was 20ft+.
As soon as I was in I had a pop at a garfish. Wouldn’t normally bother but it’s Ed’s ambition to spear one and trying to beat Ed is what keeps me young, Hee Hee! Anyway missed it. Next up saw a small/medium bass cruising the weed edge beneath me. Tried a shot from the surface but clean missed.
Eventually found the start point for flatties, which is the edge of a tide run in about 20 ft of water. On the outside in the tide it starts to get gravely and then weedy whilst on the inside it goes to soft and then rippley sand. The “strip” is 20-40 ft wide.
Only 5 minutes in and I found a nice 2.5lb plaice. Managed to mark the site with my gun and show Ed before retrieving said gun and hand spearing the fish. I thought we were going to do well but an hour and a half later I had only found one more plaice. Ed, however, speared his first sole. Knew it wouldn’t take him long.
It hadn’t been my best catch ever but at least we’re seeing a few and I have this feeling in my water that a good haul is imminent. Stay tuned.
Heading back with the sun setting was a nice experience but with a few flats as well… excellent.
Dave