Herbert Nitsch 214m News from Greece

[rxcnc2]

When this "double" event was planed we did not know how much media there should be. We got the info that there should be a lot of media and I guess Alki can tell you more about this.

When there is record attempt, AIDA has the possibility to delay the announcement for a new record, just to make sure to gain as much media we can. This is not possible for competition results. Herbert got his record, Herbert, Freediving and AIDA got the media - and media got there news. Media simply ask us if we could help, and we did.

Everybody there had a great time - some of us more than one times.

/B

ps. Herbert did the SP in wrong order the 16th

What about the depth, was the dive on 16th also to -214m or not?

 

[Jorg]

What about the depth, was the dive on 16th also to -214m or not?

In my first version of the article I said he did it twice, but in the update I wrote after talking with bill I clearly said he did a show dive. And you don't do show dives to 214 meters!

To be even more clear, no he did not dive to 214 meters on Saturday June 16th, only on June 14th Thurdsday.

 

[Kars]

I agree with Stavros.
I think lying or selectivly withholding information is not the way.
The next live coverage I'll see will be different, doubting it's validity instead of empathising with the athlete and the things he's going through.
This trend in these days of corruption, fake news, vitual reality, is one of the reasons I read so little papers and rarely watch TV. I don't like being treated like a child, being constantly lied to!

Kars

*waiting for the media? sounds like just another inteligence insulting excuse*

 

[rxcnc2]

To be even more clear, no he did not dive to 214 meters on Saturday June 16th, only on June 14th Thurdsday.

Is this true???

I don't know if I am the only one to think that no, it's
not the same. Sure Herbert did a valid record on 14th,
but I feel cheated about everything else.

By the way Bill, in this happy deal with the media etc,
did you consider that from now on nobody will believe
100% what AIDA really does in a hidden place far away?

Andrea
ps: 40 years on, there are still people that believe
that the americans didn't really land on the Moon

 

[wolleneugebauer]

in every news item you can read a different date.
total media confusion is a very good pr for a serious sport.

sorry.

 

[cebaztian]

From me, this momentus day has recieved the most positive coverage it could recieve on the countries biggest radio stations. // I was able to follow it 'live', and it was reported as live. //because they followed it 'live'! When I got the news as it happened, I yelled with joy, a mixture of relief that he was OK, and a mixture of exhiliaration that I had witnessed 200.//
Jeff

I was moved by your "article" JEFF (se further up this thread). You gave me perspective. How does it feel now (as a journalist) when you know you where fooled. You yelled with joy two days after the event. The feeling of live was actually theatre. As sportjournalist have you ever heard of any similarities in any other sport? We are watching something that is make believe and Aida is in bed with the organization. There is actually only two unbiased persons on location that can vouch that this really happened - the two Aidajudges (one of the Bills and the other judge), I hope they drank something else than Coca Cola.

Sebastian

PS As a freediver I would natuarally be more interested in seing the real dive than a staged one.

 

[trux]

I have to admit that I am also not so happy about the mock-up. And not only because the media and the visitors were fooled, but especially because the record alone was done in secrecy with no public scrutiny. Will we get to see at least the official video from the real attempt? With the real surface protocol?

It is not that I do not trust Herbert, or the present AIDA judges, but if we as the community and AIDA members, accept that records are being done in secrecy, hidden from the eyes of public, I am afraid it is only a question of time when such system gets abused. Finally, the judges are often friends with the freediver, often spending days with him or her during the record preparation, so if there is no public oversight, I can well imagine that they may tolerate a small glitch that they would not afford to do if it were at a competition watched by hundreds of visitors.

This is definitely not the way to go, and I hope it won't be repeated in the future.

 

[Kars]

Don't the organisers, AIDA judges feel any guilt of misleading people into thinking that they saw an actual World Record attempt?

Please STOP this lieing and grow a spine and stand up for truth!
Corruption stops with the first person exposing the lie, expose the lies!


Love, Courage and water,

Kars

 

[samdive]

The achievement is incredible

but lying about it? Come on guys - how on earth is AIDA to maintain credibility if it blatantly admits not telling the truth! You can still make an achievement and not announce it for a couple of days without lying - you don't have to create whole fake dives and stories as has been done here

What a shame. This is not doing our sport any favours.

Sam

PS the lithuania stunt got a lot more press over here - even my dad as has been asking about it!

 

[trux]

Also on similar note: I believe that announced times of record attempts should be mandatorily respected. And if the record attempt fails, the number of the corrective repetitions, or the time frame available for them, should be also clearly defined. I find it strange that some athletes seem to have better conditions than others. Some of them seem to be lucky enough to be good friends with judges who are willing to supervise their trainings for several days, or allow over a dozen consequent attempts throughout a night, while at others the judges simply show up just immediately before the attempt, and disappear immediately afterwards, not letting any possibility for another attempt.

I know there are several top freedivers who use to train up to 10% (or more) beyond the announced performance during the record preparation. Apparently they do not have the luck to be good friends with judges who would be present there and ratify one of their succesfull relaxed training dives, so they have to put all on a single card during the offcial and stressull event with no right for an error.

I believe that the rules should include a clause that either no record attempt repetition is allowed, or if yes, then that the judges are obliged to stay, and it should also define how long exactly, and how many repetitons are allowed, so that we have same conditions for all.

Although I greatly respect the performances achieved in such "friendly" conditions, I do not find it is correct and just to those other competitors who may have less chance to have a good friend among AIDA judges, or have less financial means.

 

[pehtran]

phew.... what a shame.

 

[wolleneugebauer]

my generally thoughts:
- no record attempts anymore
- recognized records in aida competitions only
- banishment all non-competition-disciplines outside from aida

greetings wolle

 

[Stavros]

I believe that the rules should include a clause that either no record attempt repetition is allowed, or if yes, then that the judges are obliged to stay, and it should also define how long exactly, and how many repetitons are allowed, so that we have same conditions for all.

Hi trux - there is a clause regarding record events (I don't know where it is written/agreed on but I have been told of this from an A level judge. Apparently the judges have to stay a maximum of 8 days for WR events during which the athlete can make attempts. I pressume the standard term applies - if the judge doesn't give the ok then there is no dive...so I guess during the time they are there they can agree to the athlete diving (in any of the diciplines they have announced) as much as they want (feel it is safe etc...)

Cheers Stavros

 

[jome]

my generally thoughts:
- no record attempts anymore
- recognized records in aida competitions only
- banishment all non-competition-disciplines outside from aida

greetings wolle

That is actually an interesting thought. I've wondered for a while why we do have separate "attempts". That doesn't happen in almost any other serious sport - records are made in competitions, that's it.

I suppose it stems from the old days when there were no competitions, only separate attempts and somehow that mind frame has stuck.

Something to debate in long winter nights again

I agree being dissapointed that the attempt/live stream was not "real". Then again, "media dives" are hardly a new concept...At least they admitted it. I image someone who made the trouble to actually be on site must feel pretty angry and frustrated now, and IMO has a right to.

 

[samdive]

Simo - they didn't admit it until they were found out!

couple of proposals
1) I agree, records in competitions, not outside and so what if we don't get any VW or NL competitions, these are "stunt" disciplines anyway...
2) Judges/athletes should have to declare close affiliations where they occur e.g. personal relationships, coaching relationships. You can't judge someone from your own country in case you are prejudiced, so why should it be ok to judge someone who is your best friend/coachee/ex coachee? We'll never make it totally objective but it could be a lot more so than it is at the moment.

Sam

 

[Jorg]

1) I agree, records in competitions, not outside and so what if we don't get any VW or NL competitions, these are "stunt" disciplines anyway...
2) Judges/athletes should have to declare close affiliations where they occur e.g. personal relationships, coaching relationships. You can't judge someone from your own country in case you are prejudiced, so why should it be ok to judge someone who is your best friend/coachee/ex coachee? We'll never make it totally objective but it could be a lot more so than it is at the moment.

1. Totally agree! To make freediving a real sport you should remove sled freediving (or make it a competition discipline :martial ) and have only records set in competitions, no loose attempts. Of course you then also create other holes for people to organize small competitions with 1-2-3 people attending.

2. That's already in the rules.

And don't forget that Herbert wasn't the first where this happened. It happened already two times earlier only this year! With William Trubridge and with Tom Sietas... So a little bit strange that the commotion only starts now and not sooner.

 

[Billextreme]

This is interesting. First of all AIDA did not lie about anything. When AIDA announced the new record we put the right dates on everything. You find the right dates in the record list and on the dive profile from the dive. The dive that you could see on the internet the 16th was the real dive from the 14th. THERE is nothing saying that AIDA have to put it on our website directly after the dive, sometimes this is actually impossible. When AIDA publishes dives – we always put the correct date on everything. On this site, DB, which is not connected to AIDA, you can not only read about everything, but also in what ever way you like. When we agreed to delay the announcement, we also agreed to show the correct dive on internet. (this was not the first time the announcement was delayed)

Have a nice midsummer.

/B

 

[perow1]

my generally thoughts:
- no record attempts anymore
- recognized records in aida competitions only
- banishment all non-competition-disciplines outside from aida

greetings wolle

Amen!

I am ready to sign that petition any day. As mentioned earlier no serious sports, lika athletics or swimming etc have separate record attempts.

 

[Kars]

I wasn't aware of Wiliam Trubridge's dive being subject to misleading reporting. But yes I was irritated to find out about Tom Sietas' kept quiet/secret record attempt before the televised attempt in which he did not succeed breaking Herbert Nitsch 9'04". Tom would have earned much more respect with me if he did his first attempt live on TV. Would that have failed he could try again two days later in a second more private setting.

The difference with Herbert's record is that his record is well publicised and apparently the third time we're misled in a short time.

It a pitty that these great divers have been compromised too. Where are the real people with a spine who won't sell out for the 30 pieces of silver?


Love, Courage and water,

Kars

 

[alki]

The footage of the dive is the real footage of the real record.

No one was fooled. It was just a time delay.