Spearfishing on scuba

[crusty]

Paocher
Yes i was a sad bastard i used to enjoy getting angry but i saw the light
and now i deplore any kind of violance , hey i was young and dumb.
I agree with killing vermin if i had my way there would not be a Cat alive in Australia, yes lets kill all the pests that arnt native i agree 100 %
I just dont like see Marlin as old as my kids being killed as trophies .
We are all entiteled to our own opions the world would be boring if we wernt.
The forum is a good way to pass some time and to get a little revv out of people .
Dont take life to serious live and let live blar blar blar

crusty

 

[nmoiras]

I was impressed with the response to my post...........

I thought that trying some humor (even bad) would find some response, even from the american friends. I thought that world peace and human rights where more important than game fishing......I finally thought that most american friends didn´t aprove the policy of their state..............I quess I was wrong and I´m sorry for it.

For the scuba thing:

Who told you that the impact on the ecosystem is defined only by the number of prey we take?

Has it ever occured to any of you, that even the presence of human down there is disturbing for the fish population? From that aspect freedivers tend to do much less damage to an area.

Since when the excuse ´´I only scuba where I can´t reach´´ is solid.......what are you going to do with deeper places friend? get a sub?.the ones you can´t reach...let them live.......it´s the honorable thing to do.

I could go on for pages but perhaps it´s not wanted.

To the dear friend that opened the post..............don´t scuba for fish.....learn to freedive. It´s going to be VERY satisfying the day you´ll realize you go DEEPER with your breath than others with tanks.

......sorry for any inconvinience............and also for my bad english.....please remove my registration from the forum, for I feel I´m not welcome.

Safe seas for you all

n. Moiras
Environmentalist
MSc environmental management

 

[Huan]

Ah come on Nmoiras.
You can't expect everyone to agree with you.
This post started with a guy asking a question about scuba spearing and rapidly degenerated into a sh!tefight between warring scuba hunters, freedive hunters and Aussie's
Now either you are just trolling in which case maybe you would be better leaving, or you are interested in a discussion about spearfishing.
I believe that you are the latter and that you do genuinely care about the sport.
If so maybe step back take a deep breath (everyone) and think about where you come from and maybe what it is like where others live and dive.
The world is not the same everywhere, and different countries have different customs.
Scuba vs Free is always going to generate debate, admittedly not perhaps the type of debate that was going on in this thread (bordering on infantile) but debate nonetheless.
Blindly saying that the only way is scuba and then leaving the forum when others digress is not a good advertisement for what you are trying to promote.

Think again

Huan

 

[Shadowkiller]

Unless you are hunting Vermin ( foxes rabbits etc in Austarlia ) you are killing native animals and the general consensious in educated countries is that this is no longer acceptable unless it is done to controll population etc.

That statement really reflects the problem with a discussion like this. Almost all people will assume their opinion is shared by the majority.

The general consensus ie my opinion, is that in Australia we have state and federal goverments that pander to the minority green vote, locking speaors and hunters out of perfectly viable areas simply because it gets votes.

There is no legitimate scientific reason not to hunt "native" animals whose populations are stable and not under threat. None, zip, nada, except the extremely vocal greeny minority poses a political threat to the governments of the day.

Nor is there any real reason not to spear on scuba. After 13 years of freedive spearfishing there are very few species I can't get. Does that make it unfair that I spear fish? Lets face it, most fish are pretty curious and with a bit of patience are easy targets. I could go out and bring back 40-50kg of fish every day. But I don't, and neither do scuba spearos like Rigdiver...

 

[Erik]

rapidly degenerated into a sh!tefight between warring scuba hunters, freedive hunters and Aussie's

Bloody Aussies!!

:ko

Cheers and Happy Oz Day,
Erik Y.

 

[rigdvr]

The only Crusty Ive ever heard of was a clown....and I find you quite funny. Do you have a red nose and big shoes?

Anyone who says they dont get a thrill out of the hunt is either a liar or doesnt hunt whether thats in or out of the water.

 

[rigdvr]

Alison, we have 2 other mods and 2 team leaders participating in this thread....do we really need you to come in and lay the law down?

nmoiras...you have no clue. You have never hunted where these men are. There are places where freediving is impossible, should people that live there not be allowed to hunt b/c of that? We do not all enjoy the shallow, clear waters like you have in the Med. WE protect our fisheries by determining what a SUSTAINABLE harvest is for a species and then everyone is held accountable to that. Whether you scuba dive, freedive, rod n reel, cast net, trot line, harpoon and so on. I am sorry your government did nothing to protect your fish from the greedy few that would choose to exploit them to no ends. Its not like that here.

 

[Alison]

Alison, we have 2 other mods and 2 team leaders participating in this thread....do we really need you to come in and lay the law down?

Thank you Rig, now if only the participants of this thread would act their age :hmm

 

[Jay Styron]

This is definately one of the hot button topics that pops up from time to time. I stated my opinions earlier so I won't rehash them. But, a few of the new points though. I don't really see the bomb statement as humor and no, apparently most Americans must not disagree w/ our current policy since the president won by the largest popular vote ever. But that's neither here nor there.
No I'm not going to use a sub to go deeper. Shooting a fish @ 200' in full tech gear is no piece of cake. Generally that's the only chance you get and a lot of the time you don't even get that chance. But I guess it's ok to drop a line down 1000', hook a fish, embolize it coming up but then discover it's the wrong kind and throw it back. Is that ok to you?
As to trophy hunting. As long as it's legal and the meat is used if possibe, so what. If I shot a rabbit w/ my bow, .22 or now my .17HMR it's a trophy. Just as much as the 8 pt buck I have on my wall. Though neither would qualify as a trophy to some, they are to me, so "trophy" and "trophy hunting" are very subjective. If the hunt is ecologically substainable then let it happen. As Shadowkiller stated the government usually bends to the will of the enviromentalist, even over here. But they don't seem to realize that most of the restoration, refuges and law enforcement for wildlife is paid for by sportsman through license fees and taxes. Not the bunny huggers and shrub huggers that claim these resourses for their own.
Crusty did touch on one point of truth. There are a lot of people out there that don't want us to hunt or spearfish. No matter what method you use; rifle-bow, scuba-freediving. So as long as we continue to divide ourselves it's going to be pretty easy for them to continue to make the laws and bans as they see fit for us. Remember, "united we stand, divided we fall"
Jay

 

[nmoiras]

Sorry guys.....still not convinced about the scuba hunting.

Who told you that the waters in the med are shallow? Clear yes.......but shallow?

This summer we came across a scuba hunter.......not a nice view at all. We dove in front of him (deeper than him) and started to scare everything away. we asked him to surface....and luckily he did.

Compare the average free diver with the average scuba diver.....see their shapes in the water. Which one reminds you more of a sea creature? the freediver with the long fins and nothing breaking the hydro-line, or the scuba one with instruments tanks and I don´t know what else.

´´united we stand´´? that my friend............is a joke. There is no ´´we´´. There is you.........and there is us.

All the rest............is just bubbles rofl

 

[Jay Styron]

Whatever :hmm
Jay

 

[Fondueset]

Personally I think there is a greater ethical burden placed on Scuba divers - inasmuch as their access allows for a greater potential for abuse. But after talking with rgdiver and others here I have no attitude about spearing with scuba.

As for the policies of my country. Why just the other day I was driving along behind someone with a bumper sticker that said "Fish Don't Walk and Jesus Lives!"

I believe anything I could say after that would be anti-climactic.

 

[Rolando]

´´united we stand´´? that my friend............is a joke. There is no ´´we´´. There is you.........and there is us.
All the rest............is just bubbles rofl

Couldn't agree with you more "Nmoiras The Great" I wouldn't want to be any part of your "we" as long as you are in it. Your condescending tone and elitist attitude will not make you a fit here. So, "pack" up your lungs, take a dip downward, aspetto yourself into a prune--and when you're at the bottom; say hi to Nemo for me. rofl

 

[rigdvr]

Sorry guys.....still not convinced about the scuba hunting.

You dont have to be convinced. Thats why Greece doesnt set American fisheries policies and we dont make yours. To each their own. At least I know enough not to speak on matters I dont understand. It is much better to be thought an idiot than to open your mouth and prove everyone right(or in this case type on your keyboard).

Who told you that the waters in the med are shallow? Clear yes.......but shallow?

compared to places I dive, your waters are VERY shallow. I never even see the bottom on 90% of my dives.

This summer we came across a scuba hunter.......not a nice view at all. We dove in front of him (deeper than him) and started to scare everything away. we asked him to surface....and luckily he did.

I'd have shot you...seriously.

Compare the average free diver with the average scuba diver.....see their shapes in the water. Which one reminds you more of a sea creature? the freediver with the long fins and nothing breaking the hydro-line, or the scuba one with instruments tanks and I don´t know what else.

Well which one is it...earlier you said scuba was too much of an advantage, now you say that freediving is the advantage. You cant have both sides of the argument.

´´united we stand´´? that my friend............is a joke. There is no ´´we´´. There is you.........and there is us.

definately not a joke...united we stand is an American thing. We never included Greece in it. as for it applying to divers, here we have a coallition of hunters both scuba and free that protect our rights to hunt and we try to get along.

All the rest............is just bubbles rofl

Your bubbles are worth about the same as the bubbles I release while relaxing in the hot tub.

 

[John A]

We (scuba/free diver hunters) all do our best to justify the need to kill for “sport”. To try to claim the high ground because of the method used in the act of killing is a bit hypocritical. Having hunted both with scuba and free diving, both has it’s benefits and draw backs. Get some photogs in on this discussion and we all quickly lose the “high ground”. I have yet to hear anyone on this list that “needs” to hunt to feed his/her family, and if your not, then it’s just killing for sport, justify it as you may.

 

[Jay Styron]

John, I do agree that I do not need to kill for food. It is my privelidge to be able to do so. But to simply call it a sport degrades the whole thing.
I'm not rationalizing my hunting. It's a right that has been given to me and I exercise it. I think you can look around and see that we do a great many things that we don't "need" to. That's the great thing about getting away from subsistence living.
Jay

 

[Huan]

JohnA
I believe you speak for yourself not for me when you say no-one "needs" to hunt.
I choose to feed my family with fresh fish and do so in a sustainable and safe manner which does not include feeding unsafe(farmed salmon) and unsustainable (commercially caught) fish.
I could of course make the financial decision to purchase Farmed beef with the usual dose of chemicals that entails or perhaps just go down and spear a couple of fish or pick up some scallops.
I do not see that UW photography(which I practice ) has any higher ethics than me as a spearfisher.
How do you rate this anyway?
I have seen plenty of UW photogs breaking off chunks of reef as they strive for that elusive Macro.
Puleeeeze don't try and put photogs on a pedestal, they are no better or worse than any responsible diver free or otherwise.

 

[Bill]

Nice thread. Good reading. Always wanted to hear a discussion of a question from a long time ago.
'What's the difference between paying some one to kill your food and doing it yourself?'
Any takers?
Aloha
Bill

 

[Huan]

Glad to see you back Bill , doing a bit of trolling?
I have no idea what the diff. is but what I do know is that the food that I catch for my family is of a known quality.

 

[cdavis]

Hi Baron Bill, how's your new joints?

Kind of like the difference between prostitution and free love?? Anyway, sometimes its fun to stir it up. One thing I'm sure of, logical thought and analysis don't enter into the mind set of those who condem killing fish with one type of gear vs another.

Connor