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Static PB's
- Thread starterMr Black
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
Today was my first static training in two weeks and I managed a new pb of 7'13''.
Here is a description of my ~60-minute training session:
- 1'00'' static (just to relax)
- 1' recovery and preparation
- 3'00'' static (first contraction at 2'50'')
- 1' recovery and preparation
- 4'00'' static (first contraction at 3'11'')
- 3' recovery and preparation
- 5'01'' (first contraction at 4'20'')
- 3' recovery and preparation
- 6'00'' (first contraction at 5'10'')
- 4' recovery and preparation
- 7'13'' (first contraction at 5'30'')
- ~5' recovery and preparation
- 6'30'' (first contraction at 5'10'')
- ~5' recovery and preparation
- 6'49''(first contraction at 5'25'')
-maxdream
Here is a description of my ~60-minute training session:
- 1'00'' static (just to relax)
- 1' recovery and preparation
- 3'00'' static (first contraction at 2'50'')
- 1' recovery and preparation
- 4'00'' static (first contraction at 3'11'')
- 3' recovery and preparation
- 5'01'' (first contraction at 4'20'')
- 3' recovery and preparation
- 6'00'' (first contraction at 5'10'')
- 4' recovery and preparation
- 7'13'' (first contraction at 5'30'')
- ~5' recovery and preparation
- 6'30'' (first contraction at 5'10'')
- ~5' recovery and preparation
- 6'49''(first contraction at 5'25'')
-maxdream
Late contractions
Ivan,
Getting contractions late isn't necessarily good. The latest I ever got contractions was 6'43, but at 7'00 I was almost blacking out. I feel much better at 7'00 when I get contractions around 5'45 to 6'00.
Of course, Martin Stepanek gets contractions at 4'00 - 4'20 and goes til 8'00+, so he is the ultimate example that late contractions are not necessarily good. I think Martin said he got 72 contractions on his 8'06 record. My friend Tyler got 110 contractions on a 6'30 (first contraction 3'00).
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
Ivan,
Getting contractions late isn't necessarily good. The latest I ever got contractions was 6'43, but at 7'00 I was almost blacking out. I feel much better at 7'00 when I get contractions around 5'45 to 6'00.
Of course, Martin Stepanek gets contractions at 4'00 - 4'20 and goes til 8'00+, so he is the ultimate example that late contractions are not necessarily good. I think Martin said he got 72 contractions on his 8'06 record. My friend Tyler got 110 contractions on a 6'30 (first contraction 3'00).
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
different view
My best statics have been done with late contractions. they started at about 6'30" and i lasted over another minute. contractions are of course muscular contractions. your muscles use oxygen to contract. The more contractions you have, the more oxygen you'll use up and the shorter your statics will be. i really can't see how contractions can possibly extend a static?
having late contractions doesn't mean hyperventilating though!!! for Martin Stepnaek's case: if he resisted his contractions until much later then perhaps he would be doing 9min+ statics instead of 8min! the fact that he gets them early and happens to be the WR holder tells us nothing about how to deal with contractions. :head
My best statics have been done with late contractions. they started at about 6'30" and i lasted over another minute. contractions are of course muscular contractions. your muscles use oxygen to contract. The more contractions you have, the more oxygen you'll use up and the shorter your statics will be. i really can't see how contractions can possibly extend a static?
having late contractions doesn't mean hyperventilating though!!! for Martin Stepnaek's case: if he resisted his contractions until much later then perhaps he would be doing 9min+ statics instead of 8min! the fact that he gets them early and happens to be the WR holder tells us nothing about how to deal with contractions. :head
Just to add to Alun's comments:
I can see nothing but benefit from late contractions, PER SE, but (as Alun and Eric say) late contractions are usually due to excessive hypocapnia (too low blood CO2) at the start of the apnea, and this low CO2 restricts the dilation of cranial arteries, thus leaving a lower bloodflow in the brain despite increasing hypoxia.
The key to this must be ceasing the contractions, whilst allowing the blood to be hypercapnic.
Time for all the mind-over body people to step in and lend advice.
i could do with some - I get contractions at 2:30 and carry on with them for another 3 minutes - hence why breatholding is not my cup of tea!
I can see nothing but benefit from late contractions, PER SE, but (as Alun and Eric say) late contractions are usually due to excessive hypocapnia (too low blood CO2) at the start of the apnea, and this low CO2 restricts the dilation of cranial arteries, thus leaving a lower bloodflow in the brain despite increasing hypoxia.
The key to this must be ceasing the contractions, whilst allowing the blood to be hypercapnic.
Time for all the mind-over body people to step in and lend advice.
i could do with some - I get contractions at 2:30 and carry on with them for another 3 minutes - hence why breatholding is not my cup of tea!
late contractions
I have late contraction because I hyperventilate slightly. Although I get my first contractions at 5'30'' sometimes I still feel the lack of oxygen before, maybe at 4'30''. That's about the time I would get the first contraction without hyperventilation when I'm prepared for a long atempt.
I copied some of this technique from Herbert during our static training in Hawaii. He did a dive where he got his first contraction at 6'45'' but couldn't manage to do more than 7'35''. He hyperventilates extensively.
Hubert Maier is like Martin Stepanek fighting a lot during static. In his last conpetition static dive Hubert got his first contraction at 3'30'' but still did 7'02''.
So in the end everybody has to find his/her very own ritual of static apnea.
-maxdream
I have late contraction because I hyperventilate slightly. Although I get my first contractions at 5'30'' sometimes I still feel the lack of oxygen before, maybe at 4'30''. That's about the time I would get the first contraction without hyperventilation when I'm prepared for a long atempt.
I copied some of this technique from Herbert during our static training in Hawaii. He did a dive where he got his first contraction at 6'45'' but couldn't manage to do more than 7'35''. He hyperventilates extensively.
Hubert Maier is like Martin Stepanek fighting a lot during static. In his last conpetition static dive Hubert got his first contraction at 3'30'' but still did 7'02''.
So in the end everybody has to find his/her very own ritual of static apnea.
-maxdream
Contractions help
I have done extensive tests with contractions & O2 consumption. The results of my experiments are clear:
1. While getting contractions, you consume LESS OXYGEN than while NOT getting contractions.
This is why Martin always tried to get contractions as SOON AS POSSIBLE!!
I will give an example. If I hyperventilate and then do a static, I reach 5'00 without even being close to a contraction, and according to the oximeter my SaO2 is 82% (very consistent and repeatable). In this case I would start at around 100% or 99%.
If, however, I take just 2 BREATHS (!!), and then pack the same amount, then I get my first contraction at 3'30 (and at the start I would be at SaO2 = 98%). Then, by the time I have reached 5'00, I have been getting contractions for 1'30, but my SaO2 is 90%, which is far higher than 82%, due to the nonlinear progression of this curve (even though I started off at a lower SaO2 in the beginning). Similarly, when I reach 6'00, my SaO2 is much higher if I got my first contraction at 3'30 rather than at 5'30 - 6'00.
By not hyperventilating, your CO2 is much higher, and the high CO2 drops your metabolic rate so much that it makes up for the muscular effort of the contraction. Plus, the CO2 stimulates the vagus nerve and drops your heart rate along with your metabolic rate.
When I did my pb of 7'35, I think I was at SaO2 = 84% at 5'00 (this was with hyperventilating). When I take just 2 or 3 breaths, then I'm at 90% after 5'00, which means, in theory, that I could far surpass my pb; the problem is always that after 6'00 - 6'10 (without hyperventilating), my CO2 goes over 9.2% and I cannot hold my breath anymore, and I must exhale. Martin, however, managed to continue holding his breath despite CO2 > 9.2% (he probably went over 10%). After CO2 = 9.0%, I start to get CO2 narcosis, even during dry statics!
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
I have done extensive tests with contractions & O2 consumption. The results of my experiments are clear:
1. While getting contractions, you consume LESS OXYGEN than while NOT getting contractions.
This is why Martin always tried to get contractions as SOON AS POSSIBLE!!
I will give an example. If I hyperventilate and then do a static, I reach 5'00 without even being close to a contraction, and according to the oximeter my SaO2 is 82% (very consistent and repeatable). In this case I would start at around 100% or 99%.
If, however, I take just 2 BREATHS (!!), and then pack the same amount, then I get my first contraction at 3'30 (and at the start I would be at SaO2 = 98%). Then, by the time I have reached 5'00, I have been getting contractions for 1'30, but my SaO2 is 90%, which is far higher than 82%, due to the nonlinear progression of this curve (even though I started off at a lower SaO2 in the beginning). Similarly, when I reach 6'00, my SaO2 is much higher if I got my first contraction at 3'30 rather than at 5'30 - 6'00.
By not hyperventilating, your CO2 is much higher, and the high CO2 drops your metabolic rate so much that it makes up for the muscular effort of the contraction. Plus, the CO2 stimulates the vagus nerve and drops your heart rate along with your metabolic rate.
When I did my pb of 7'35, I think I was at SaO2 = 84% at 5'00 (this was with hyperventilating). When I take just 2 or 3 breaths, then I'm at 90% after 5'00, which means, in theory, that I could far surpass my pb; the problem is always that after 6'00 - 6'10 (without hyperventilating), my CO2 goes over 9.2% and I cannot hold my breath anymore, and I must exhale. Martin, however, managed to continue holding his breath despite CO2 > 9.2% (he probably went over 10%). After CO2 = 9.0%, I start to get CO2 narcosis, even during dry statics!
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
wow
hi amazing info
Eric if you delayed contractions to 6:43 and stopped your apnea there when you get your first. Your time would still be huge but in the comfort of not having to fight any contractions.
Come to think of it you can sit there for 6:43 without even fighting a single contraction where the average person like me without hyperventilating stuggles to delay the first contraction for 2:15. Has Martin S ever tried lots of hyperventilation wonder what his times would be.
cheers
hi amazing info
Eric if you delayed contractions to 6:43 and stopped your apnea there when you get your first. Your time would still be huge but in the comfort of not having to fight any contractions.
Come to think of it you can sit there for 6:43 without even fighting a single contraction where the average person like me without hyperventilating stuggles to delay the first contraction for 2:15. Has Martin S ever tried lots of hyperventilation wonder what his times would be.
cheers
More info
Getting contractions at 6'43 with hyperventilating is interesting, but not as interesting as what happened to me one day in December 2000. After drinking a home-made drink of coconut and dates, I tried doing some statics. I took two breaths, did 5'07 (4'18) with no effort, then after maybe 30-40 seconds of slow recovery, I took three deep breaths and did 5'53 (5'20) with 10 contractions. That remains my pb for the latest contraction after just 3 breaths for the breathe-up.
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
Getting contractions at 6'43 with hyperventilating is interesting, but not as interesting as what happened to me one day in December 2000. After drinking a home-made drink of coconut and dates, I tried doing some statics. I took two breaths, did 5'07 (4'18) with no effort, then after maybe 30-40 seconds of slow recovery, I took three deep breaths and did 5'53 (5'20) with 10 contractions. That remains my pb for the latest contraction after just 3 breaths for the breathe-up.
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
confusion?
there may some confusion here.
when i talk of having late contractions, they are *not* due to hyperventilation.
There are three scenarios here:
1. hyperventilation, with late contractions
2. no hyperventilation with early contractions
3. no hyperventilation with late contractions
What i'm saying is that 3 is better than 2.
what Eric seems to be saying is that 2 is better than 1, and I totally agree with that. person 2 and person 3 have the same SaO2 and PaCO2 at the start of the static - they have an identical preparation. the difference is how they mentally deal with contractions. person 2 allows contractions when he feels the urge to breathe, *but* person 3 uses his mind to resist contractions despite feeling the same urge to breathe.
What i'm saying is that person 3 will last longer than person 2 because he has no/fewer contractions - that burn precious oxygen.
Eric, it sounds to me like your 6'43" fits into category 1, and so I'm not surprised you were nearly blacking out at 7'00".
as for category 3...
the urge to breathe is all in the mind. if you mentally prepare yourself for the 'pain' of extreme hypercapnia, and have a strong will, then you can learn to deal with it.
I once read/heard about T.E.Lawrence (of Arabia!) who showed a friend how he could allow a match to burn right down to his fingers. His friend couldnt believe how he did that. Lawrence replied 'the trick, my dear fellow, is to not mind that it hurts!' (my memory of this is a rather fuzzy, so please excuse any errors. it's something that has always stuck in my mind -just! :duh the meaning behind is the important thing.)
alun
there may some confusion here.
when i talk of having late contractions, they are *not* due to hyperventilation.
There are three scenarios here:
1. hyperventilation, with late contractions
2. no hyperventilation with early contractions
3. no hyperventilation with late contractions
What i'm saying is that 3 is better than 2.
what Eric seems to be saying is that 2 is better than 1, and I totally agree with that. person 2 and person 3 have the same SaO2 and PaCO2 at the start of the static - they have an identical preparation. the difference is how they mentally deal with contractions. person 2 allows contractions when he feels the urge to breathe, *but* person 3 uses his mind to resist contractions despite feeling the same urge to breathe.
What i'm saying is that person 3 will last longer than person 2 because he has no/fewer contractions - that burn precious oxygen.
Eric, it sounds to me like your 6'43" fits into category 1, and so I'm not surprised you were nearly blacking out at 7'00".
as for category 3...
the urge to breathe is all in the mind. if you mentally prepare yourself for the 'pain' of extreme hypercapnia, and have a strong will, then you can learn to deal with it.
I once read/heard about T.E.Lawrence (of Arabia!) who showed a friend how he could allow a match to burn right down to his fingers. His friend couldnt believe how he did that. Lawrence replied 'the trick, my dear fellow, is to not mind that it hurts!' (my memory of this is a rather fuzzy, so please excuse any errors. it's something that has always stuck in my mind -just! :duh the meaning behind is the important thing.)
alun
Last edited:
K just got my PB about 10 min ago - 3 min 36...
still haven't experienced contractions tho - when the pain gets bad what i'll do is suck my chest in and that alleviates the pain for a bit (proly by siphoning off built up nerve potential in the breathin muscles) but those are completely voluntary - i even held my breath on an exhale for 1 minute and didn't get any contractions - but i did start to get a massive burn in the pit of my stomach...
still haven't experienced contractions tho - when the pain gets bad what i'll do is suck my chest in and that alleviates the pain for a bit (proly by siphoning off built up nerve potential in the breathin muscles) but those are completely voluntary - i even held my breath on an exhale for 1 minute and didn't get any contractions - but i did start to get a massive burn in the pit of my stomach...
hi
Eric so your 5:53 was with 3 slow deep stomach breaths breathe up. You delayed them to 5:20. I don't consider 3 deep breaths as hyperventilation as this is my non hyperventilation breathe up. When I hperventilate I do it properly for up to 3mins.
I would have thought that if YOU were using 3 deep breaths breathe up eg not much hperventilation and didn't get a contraction until 5:20 that you would have been able to hold another 1min of contractions at least considering how well you can hold contractions due to your C02 tolerance. Weird
cheers
Eric so your 5:53 was with 3 slow deep stomach breaths breathe up. You delayed them to 5:20. I don't consider 3 deep breaths as hyperventilation as this is my non hyperventilation breathe up. When I hperventilate I do it properly for up to 3mins.
I would have thought that if YOU were using 3 deep breaths breathe up eg not much hperventilation and didn't get a contraction until 5:20 that you would have been able to hold another 1min of contractions at least considering how well you can hold contractions due to your C02 tolerance. Weird
cheers
Comment
Ivan,
That 5'53 (5'20) was to 10 contractions only, on purpose, to see if I could break my old 'pb with 10 contractions' (which had been 5'44) I probably could have done 30 more contractions but I wasn't in the mood!
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
Ivan,
That 5'53 (5'20) was to 10 contractions only, on purpose, to see if I could break my old 'pb with 10 contractions' (which had been 5'44) I probably could have done 30 more contractions but I wasn't in the mood!
Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
hi all,
this is marcus aurelius, new member and training now for 3 months.
my PB now is exactly 6'00(dry)
the weird thing is that a couple of days before i had a samba on 5'40. but had no problems at all with the 6'00.
last sunday on the freediveINN AIDAcontest,
mr.Stig Severinsen did an amazing 7'22!!as it seemed it took him so little effort. Iwas told that it is the record for AIDA-competition.
(also mr. Nitsch's 138m DWF was fantastic to watch!)
M.A.
this is marcus aurelius, new member and training now for 3 months.
my PB now is exactly 6'00(dry)
the weird thing is that a couple of days before i had a samba on 5'40. but had no problems at all with the 6'00.
last sunday on the freediveINN AIDAcontest,
mr.Stig Severinsen did an amazing 7'22!!as it seemed it took him so little effort. Iwas told that it is the record for AIDA-competition.
(also mr. Nitsch's 138m DWF was fantastic to watch!)
M.A.
hi all
had my pb today of 6:30 (4:05).
since i'm a bit lazy with static training i'm quite happy about it.
about eric's post on contractions and oxygen consumption:
this i find really interesting, but i assume it only works for somebody who still maintains a high degree of body control? i've seen some people literally fighting for it and i don't think that those guys actually would benefit from it.
another interesting piece of information on the db.
cheers
roland
had my pb today of 6:30 (4:05).
since i'm a bit lazy with static training i'm quite happy about it.
about eric's post on contractions and oxygen consumption:
this i find really interesting, but i assume it only works for somebody who still maintains a high degree of body control? i've seen some people literally fighting for it and i don't think that those guys actually would benefit from it.
another interesting piece of information on the db.
cheers
roland
