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Static with no warm-up
- Thread starterderelictp
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Hi Michael, thanks for replying.
I did hyperventilate, but no more than I always do.
I might have been tired or dehydrated, but there was nothing out of the ordinary.
It was a total mystery, because when I do dry statics, I almost always do 4:00, 4:30, 5:00 and I have only ever once had a very minor LMC with this method, out of hundreds of statics. Many times I have been in less than perfect condition, tired etc., but this has never caused a problem. I have done up to 5:30 like this without trouble.
In the pool it is a different story...
I started by doing 3:30, which felt good and I finished perfectly. For the next one I decided to go for 4:00. I felt fine, and it seemed to be going perfectly well. At 3:30 I remember thinking "I can easily do 4:30, this is really easy". I still felt good at about 3:55, then at 4:00 I started to samba and my buddy picked me up. I knew what was happening, and remember everything except his picking me up. It was an energetic LMC.
It has really put me off. I don't know what to do so it doesn't happen again. I am much more careful in the pool than with my dry statics. Maybe this is the problem - I need to do all the things I do for dry statics (long first attempt, only short rest periods between statics) and I will be fine in the pool. It seems that when I do everything wrong, I am ok, and when I try to be careful, things go wrong.
My PBs are 4:04 in the pool and 5:30 dry.
I find it very difficult to push myself now, and I have lost my nerve for long statics and dynamics in the pool.
Help..... :waterwork
Lucia
I did hyperventilate, but no more than I always do.
I might have been tired or dehydrated, but there was nothing out of the ordinary.
It was a total mystery, because when I do dry statics, I almost always do 4:00, 4:30, 5:00 and I have only ever once had a very minor LMC with this method, out of hundreds of statics. Many times I have been in less than perfect condition, tired etc., but this has never caused a problem. I have done up to 5:30 like this without trouble.
In the pool it is a different story...
I started by doing 3:30, which felt good and I finished perfectly. For the next one I decided to go for 4:00. I felt fine, and it seemed to be going perfectly well. At 3:30 I remember thinking "I can easily do 4:30, this is really easy". I still felt good at about 3:55, then at 4:00 I started to samba and my buddy picked me up. I knew what was happening, and remember everything except his picking me up. It was an energetic LMC.
It has really put me off. I don't know what to do so it doesn't happen again. I am much more careful in the pool than with my dry statics. Maybe this is the problem - I need to do all the things I do for dry statics (long first attempt, only short rest periods between statics) and I will be fine in the pool. It seems that when I do everything wrong, I am ok, and when I try to be careful, things go wrong.
My PBs are 4:04 in the pool and 5:30 dry.
I find it very difficult to push myself now, and I have lost my nerve for long statics and dynamics in the pool.
Help..... :waterwork
Lucia
Hi Ben,
I wasn't watching the clock - the times I give are approximate, or what my buddy told me afterwards. I didn't feel any indication that there was a problem, or even that I was pushing myself at all. It was almost effortless right up to the moment of LMC.
That is what scares me - I now feel that there is no way of knowing when to stop, and this has taken away my confidence.
Thanks for helping
Lucia
I wasn't watching the clock - the times I give are approximate, or what my buddy told me afterwards. I didn't feel any indication that there was a problem, or even that I was pushing myself at all. It was almost effortless right up to the moment of LMC.
That is what scares me - I now feel that there is no way of knowing when to stop, and this has taken away my confidence.
Thanks for helping
Lucia
Could be that your longer rest periods when doing wet statics are contributing more to your hypcapnia then you'de want.
When hyperventilating you usually trade comfortness for max potential time, I guess you need some of that CO2 you're losing.
Try starting your wet apneas with more CO2. You won't be the first person that I've heard of that has different warmups for wet and dry statics.
Even if it'll make you do shorter and harder wet statics, it might help you psychologically because you'll be clear of trouble at the end of them.
When hyperventilating you usually trade comfortness for max potential time, I guess you need some of that CO2 you're losing.
Try starting your wet apneas with more CO2. You won't be the first person that I've heard of that has different warmups for wet and dry statics.
Even if it'll make you do shorter and harder wet statics, it might help you psychologically because you'll be clear of trouble at the end of them.
Hi Naiad!
It sounds like you have done extrem hyperventilation.
But I'am a beginner in static apnea so I let the experts try to find the answer on your problem
I have the opposite problem.
I can't push my static time any longer, even If I'm not close to my limits!
My contraction comes early (around 2 min) and they are so hard that it is impossible to continue (after more than 2 minutes of contractions),
even If I hyperventilate MUCH the contraction comes early and become very hard
(when I hyperventilate they come at 2 min 30 sec).
I have tryed Peters teori about not doing warmups but then it is even more impossible, the contractions comes at 1.30 and at 3.30 - 4 min It feels like I should die!
When I do a max static I can have contractions for almost 3 minutes but then it is impossible to continue!!! I have alot of oxygen left and I have never been close to Samba. I have done over 4 minutes and then I start to going around (holding my breath) just to show how much oxygen I have left.
I hate static apnea, at the moment :waterwork
Is I just to weak or does my body not react to hyperventilation?
Regards
Freediver15
My english is not so good
It sounds like you have done extrem hyperventilation.
But I'am a beginner in static apnea so I let the experts try to find the answer on your problem
I have the opposite problem.
I can't push my static time any longer, even If I'm not close to my limits!
My contraction comes early (around 2 min) and they are so hard that it is impossible to continue (after more than 2 minutes of contractions),
even If I hyperventilate MUCH the contraction comes early and become very hard
(when I hyperventilate they come at 2 min 30 sec).
I have tryed Peters teori about not doing warmups but then it is even more impossible, the contractions comes at 1.30 and at 3.30 - 4 min It feels like I should die!
When I do a max static I can have contractions for almost 3 minutes but then it is impossible to continue!!! I have alot of oxygen left and I have never been close to Samba. I have done over 4 minutes and then I start to going around (holding my breath) just to show how much oxygen I have left.
I hate static apnea, at the moment :waterwork
Is I just to weak or does my body not react to hyperventilation?
Regards
Freediver15
My english is not so good
Your ventilation MAY be unefficient due to incorrect usage of the breathing technique or bad relaxation.
Use diafragmatic breathing with active inhale and passive exhale and a little pause after the exhale. Offcourse fokus on relaxing. There are probably more methods but this is what has worked best for me.
Use diafragmatic breathing with active inhale and passive exhale and a little pause after the exhale. Offcourse fokus on relaxing. There are probably more methods but this is what has worked best for me.
To answer a few questions:
X-Fins, I think the body position is similar in wet and dry static, as I almost always lie on my side on a flat surface for dry statics. Maybe there is a small difference, I don't know if this would be a problem.
Michael, I will try with less hyperventilation next time.
Eric, I can't remember what I ate in the two days leading up to the static, but I'm sure it was nothing different from usual.
Is it possible that training statics with no warm-up has made me more alkaline? I have been doing this a lot, and it has got so much easier.
I tried to give all of you Reputation, but it wouldn't let me!
My freediving friends have convinced me to try again soon, so I will let you know how it goes.
Lucia
X-Fins, I think the body position is similar in wet and dry static, as I almost always lie on my side on a flat surface for dry statics. Maybe there is a small difference, I don't know if this would be a problem.
Michael, I will try with less hyperventilation next time.
Eric, I can't remember what I ate in the two days leading up to the static, but I'm sure it was nothing different from usual.
Is it possible that training statics with no warm-up has made me more alkaline? I have been doing this a lot, and it has got so much easier.
I tried to give all of you Reputation, but it wouldn't let me!
My freediving friends have convinced me to try again soon, so I will let you know how it goes.
Lucia
The no warm up training may have put you into compensated respiratory alkalosis. Basically it means that you have an increased amount of bicarbonate buffers, which would make you more alkaline, but because during your everyday life you only breathe when you feel like it, then the breathing is delayed, accumulating CO2 and balancing your acidity to normal levels. At that moment your acidity (blood pH) is 'normal', except you are not 'normal' because you have more CO2 and more bicarbonate which 'cancel out.' The difference happens when you hyperventilate, now you get rid of the extra CO2, and all that is left is the extra bicarbonate, making you now super alkaline.
Peter and Eric, thanks for the explanations.
I think my CO2 tolerance has improved a lot. I almost never get contractions under normal circumstances, even if I don't hyperventilate at all. This doesn't mean that I can do max times without any preparation, because I still get the urge to breathe, but it just never shows itself as contractions.
I probably also have compensated respiratory alkalosis - this would explain the difference after training with no warm-up. I will try not to hyperventilate so much, and see if this helps.
Lucia
I think my CO2 tolerance has improved a lot. I almost never get contractions under normal circumstances, even if I don't hyperventilate at all. This doesn't mean that I can do max times without any preparation, because I still get the urge to breathe, but it just never shows itself as contractions.
I probably also have compensated respiratory alkalosis - this would explain the difference after training with no warm-up. I will try not to hyperventilate so much, and see if this helps.
Lucia
Lucia, concerning blacking out and sambas in the pool much sooner than dry, I have had very similar experiences to yours. In the pool I always felt better than dry, but when I tried to push myself, I black out or samba. My dry pr was 6:15 and wet was only 5:00.
I have been so bothered about it that I devised a way to waterproof a finger pulse/oximeter. I can actually watch it while doing the static. Its pretty hilarious looking and I plan to post a picture of sometime, but unfortunately I only have had the opportunity to try it once last month.
Even with only having one pool session, I think I figured out my main wet static problem. That is heart rate. With the soothing of the feeling of the water, I had been thinking I was more relaxed than I actually was. On a dry static my hr is usually in upper 50’s to low 60’s before I do 3 finally purge breaths. At the start of the hold it is in the low to upper 60’s. I was shocked to find out that my hr in the water, when toward the end of the breathup, when I thought I was relaxed, was actually in the upper 80’s and low 90’s!
I went ahead and started the first couple holds like this and found my SaO2% was dropping very fast compared to my standard dry static readings. With the pulse reading I was able to concentrate on relaxing and get my pre-static hr down similar to dry static. By then I was just about out of time and starting to get cold so I only did a 4:00, but my SaO2% was comparable to dry statics at 4:00.
I’m looking forward to more time in the pool with my submergible pulse/oximeter soon.
don
I have been so bothered about it that I devised a way to waterproof a finger pulse/oximeter. I can actually watch it while doing the static. Its pretty hilarious looking and I plan to post a picture of sometime, but unfortunately I only have had the opportunity to try it once last month.
Even with only having one pool session, I think I figured out my main wet static problem. That is heart rate. With the soothing of the feeling of the water, I had been thinking I was more relaxed than I actually was. On a dry static my hr is usually in upper 50’s to low 60’s before I do 3 finally purge breaths. At the start of the hold it is in the low to upper 60’s. I was shocked to find out that my hr in the water, when toward the end of the breathup, when I thought I was relaxed, was actually in the upper 80’s and low 90’s!
I went ahead and started the first couple holds like this and found my SaO2% was dropping very fast compared to my standard dry static readings. With the pulse reading I was able to concentrate on relaxing and get my pre-static hr down similar to dry static. By then I was just about out of time and starting to get cold so I only did a 4:00, but my SaO2% was comparable to dry statics at 4:00.
I’m looking forward to more time in the pool with my submergible pulse/oximeter soon.
don
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Hi Don,
I haven't measured my SaO2% in wet or dry statics, but I have measured my heart rate and it is always very high. My resting hr is at least 80 and it sometimes falls slightly during a static, but it also sometimes gets faster.
I am sure that a sudden drop in SaO2% is the cause for my LMCs, so if I can stop this happening, the problem will be solved.
Lucia
I haven't measured my SaO2% in wet or dry statics, but I have measured my heart rate and it is always very high. My resting hr is at least 80 and it sometimes falls slightly during a static, but it also sometimes gets faster.
I am sure that a sudden drop in SaO2% is the cause for my LMCs, so if I can stop this happening, the problem will be solved.
Lucia
Good day All :wave !
Here is my 2 cent on the matter.
I’ve been doing Freediving for almost 6 years now and my strongest discipline is the static. I started by the normal 3 warm up and then go for max, but then approx 3 years ago switched over to go for max in the first try, due to 2 reasons in a competition you just get 1 try, and second a bit lazy
This approach works great for me, I can get off watch at midnight (I’m a navigator onboard a gas tanker) go to my room, lay on the bed and rest for just 5 minutes, breath deeply for 3 times and do approx 7 minutes every time (PB 7:08 in this way). I give some credit to this time that I do this training every single day.
I hope that this might inspire someone to give this approach a try as I’m a believer of max in 1st
Here is my 2 cent on the matter.
I’ve been doing Freediving for almost 6 years now and my strongest discipline is the static. I started by the normal 3 warm up and then go for max, but then approx 3 years ago switched over to go for max in the first try, due to 2 reasons in a competition you just get 1 try, and second a bit lazy
This approach works great for me, I can get off watch at midnight (I’m a navigator onboard a gas tanker) go to my room, lay on the bed and rest for just 5 minutes, breath deeply for 3 times and do approx 7 minutes every time (PB 7:08 in this way). I give some credit to this time that I do this training every single day.
I hope that this might inspire someone to give this approach a try as I’m a believer of max in 1st
Heart Rate
Lucia,
Heart rate seems to be a very personal thing as people have all different resting hr’s. I’m no expert, but here are a few observations I have made using my pulse/oximeter and keeping records for just over a year now. My hr inversely correlates pretty closely to SaO2 drop. When it is low, the SaO2 drops slowly.
Two controllable variables that effect hr is the breathup and the mind. A forceful breathup will make hr high. Best to use mostly the diaphragm and the lower lungs in the inhale and breath out slower than inhaling. I find using the upper lungs, probably because of the chest and shoulder muscles, really increases hr. Using the partway closure of the mouth to increase resistance of the exhale and thus slow it works good too. Although I think my best oxygenation and CO2 elimination happen without using the mouth in the exhale and I can do it without increasing my hr, but it is more difficult to do it consistently.
With the mind, an elimination of all thoughts, or just the best you can, lowers the hr. When you hear someone say this, it doesn’t mean that thoughts don’t come into the mind, but more of a controlling them, by gently pushing them aside.
And of course the best way to practice hr techniques is with some type of hr monitor and readout. The mental effort and inaccuracy of trying to count beats and time, I don’t think will allow a person the peace and space to practice the techniques necessary.
Just my two cents,
don
Lucia,
Heart rate seems to be a very personal thing as people have all different resting hr’s. I’m no expert, but here are a few observations I have made using my pulse/oximeter and keeping records for just over a year now. My hr inversely correlates pretty closely to SaO2 drop. When it is low, the SaO2 drops slowly.
Two controllable variables that effect hr is the breathup and the mind. A forceful breathup will make hr high. Best to use mostly the diaphragm and the lower lungs in the inhale and breath out slower than inhaling. I find using the upper lungs, probably because of the chest and shoulder muscles, really increases hr. Using the partway closure of the mouth to increase resistance of the exhale and thus slow it works good too. Although I think my best oxygenation and CO2 elimination happen without using the mouth in the exhale and I can do it without increasing my hr, but it is more difficult to do it consistently.
With the mind, an elimination of all thoughts, or just the best you can, lowers the hr. When you hear someone say this, it doesn’t mean that thoughts don’t come into the mind, but more of a controlling them, by gently pushing them aside.
And of course the best way to practice hr techniques is with some type of hr monitor and readout. The mental effort and inaccuracy of trying to count beats and time, I don’t think will allow a person the peace and space to practice the techniques necessary.
Just my two cents,
don
Hey I used to wear a heart rate monitor only for cardio exercise..until I discovered
that doing a dry static while watching my HR was very useful to low your heart beat.
Suddenly you manage to drop it and your mind-body tandem actually 'learns' this state
and can recall it at will. For me it actually took 5 minutes to know what was the mental quiet state that made my HR drop around 38 bpm. Suddenly if I found myself
thinking LOUDLY, I saw this number go up like 40..50..60 and then f*ck up the static.
Yeah I know this monitor is 30-60 euro range and not everybody can afford this but..
you can always borrow one fome somebody and experiment
As Don says.. is also good to experiment with the breath-up. I know that even hyperventilating violently my HR actually don't go beyond 90 bpm and 10 seconds from the breathold it drops to the low 40's.. so high HR is not a concern if i do violent purges (but.. yes the CO2 drop and excesive alkaline IS a problem so i take three tiny breaths afterwards to correct this)
Also my 1 1/2 cents
that doing a dry static while watching my HR was very useful to low your heart beat.
Suddenly you manage to drop it and your mind-body tandem actually 'learns' this state
and can recall it at will. For me it actually took 5 minutes to know what was the mental quiet state that made my HR drop around 38 bpm. Suddenly if I found myself
thinking LOUDLY, I saw this number go up like 40..50..60 and then f*ck up the static.
Yeah I know this monitor is 30-60 euro range and not everybody can afford this but..
you can always borrow one fome somebody and experiment
As Don says.. is also good to experiment with the breath-up. I know that even hyperventilating violently my HR actually don't go beyond 90 bpm and 10 seconds from the breathold it drops to the low 40's.. so high HR is not a concern if i do violent purges (but.. yes the CO2 drop and excesive alkaline IS a problem so i take three tiny breaths afterwards to correct this)
Also my 1 1/2 cents
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